Locked, enclosed handgun cases... on the hip? Concealed or not?

[grammaton76]

This is a mental exercise for the future - please, I don't want to see any lunatics take this idea and run around using it right away. Let things percolate a bit first.

But anyway, I couldn't sleep tonight, and my mind was wandering somewhere between bullet buttons, CA legal handgun transit in vehicles, and open carry. That's when I realized that you might be able to combine the three. I've already determined that the Blackhawk SERPA wouldn't work (for those who don't know, these holsters have a push-button which locks the handgun in place, and will only relinquish it if you press the button whilst pulling the handgun out), but it seems the core idea would apply to a fully enclosed locked container on your hip.

A pic of the SERPA... now envision something like it, but with a transparent material completely enclosing it.



Now, if a qualified as a locked container, might that also satisfy vehicular transport requirements, thus rendering it perfectly safe to drive around with without checking for school zones?

Here's the PC section which rules out the SERPA but wouldn't necessarily rule out a custom-built container:

(d) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle.

It seems to me that a holster-shaped container attached to the hip and made of a completely transparent material (lexan?) would qualify as a locked container, and the weapon wouldn't be concealed. A small key lock would work to unlock it.

Another, even crazier idea - even if it weren't transparent, if the gun is locked up inside of a mini-safe with a key, would it actually be illegal to conceal the mini-safe? After all, I'm pretty sure that transporting a pistol inside of a standard gun lockbox in a backpack is legal. How large does a lockbox have to be?

If there were a kydex or carbon fiber total-enclosure container for a gun, which required a key to open, I imagine this would pass muster as a locking device, and thus the handgun wouldn't be "concealed", but simply legally transported... the case only happens to have a small-of-the-back clip or so. If girls can learn to undo bra clasps behind them, surely CA gun nuts can learn to get a key into a lock and turn it...

[Liberty1]

Keep that idea in your back pocket if the 2nd A. fails to get us loaded open carry with no 1000' school victim disarmament zones.

[Librarian]

The issue in the law is that the locked case is a legal way to transport a concealable handgun concealed without CCW.

Seems to me if the case is transparent, the contents are not concealed. With a lock, I'm sure it would be just as good for handgun transport as one that is opaque.

But I'm also sure you'd get police officers scratching their heads with that "what now?" look on their faces.

[InvictusManeo]

I have seen nothing in any law* stating that the locked container can't be slung on a belt. I personally would prefer a push-button combo lock, or biometric system. Using a key on your hip seems ungainly to me.

*I do not, however, claim to have read and understood every piece of federal, state, county, and city firearm law.

[Liberty1]

The issue in the law is that the locked case is a legal way to transport a concealable handgun concealed without CCW.

Seems to me if the case is transparent, the contents are not concealed. With a lock, I'm sure it would be just as good for handgun transport as one that is opaque.

But I'm also sure you'd get police officers scratching their heads with that "what now?" look on their faces.

What this does do by making 12025 irrelevant, is allow a sort of open carry through a school zone with none of the travel limitations imposed by the 12026.1a &2a exemptions!

[Blue]

You could take something like a Lifejacket and put a belt loop on it too right?

[MudCamper]

Interesting.

So you only want the "fully enclosed locked case" part for when you must comply with the 626.9 "school zones", which reference the 12026.2 for the definition of the locked case.

Otherwise you are just open carrying per 12025(f) and it doesn't even need to be locked.

Seems legal to me.

[WokMaster1]

Instead of a key, maybe a push button combo lock. I have in mind something along the line of RoboCop's holster where at the push of the right buttons, the panels open up & out comes the pistola in a Serpa-type holster.

[grammaton76]

Ya know, the more I think about this... the less I think it actually needs to be transparent. Transparent and on the hip is just kind of a nicety.

Opaque and concealed under jacket/whatnot for the win. It's not a concealed weapon, just an inconspicuously transported lockbox...

[grammaton76]

Instead of a key, maybe a push button combo lock. I have in mind something along the line of RoboCop's holster where at the push of the right buttons, the panels open up & out comes the pistola in a Serpa-type holster.

As long as it's one of the listed example mechanisms, I think it's pretty solid. "Key lock" is pretty airtight. Combination... well, they may consider a pushbutton not to be combination-ish enough, if you're thinking of the mechanical pushbutton variety.

(d) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device.

That having been said, I would ***LOVE*** to have a Robo-ish holster. Minus, of course, the huge gaping hole in my leg.

For practical reasons though, I'm thinking something made of fiberglass or some other cast material in the small of the back might be the best bet. Form fitting, won't rattle around, and a simple locking mechanism can be used.

[weezil_boi]

wow, cool idea.

A lock box for a P-3AT would be the size of my blackberry holster and nealry un-noticeable!

I agree... if the open carry doesnt pan out as a common, then this idea is slick. Either way, it'd would be cool to have holsters that doubled as one side of a "clamshell" to lock up the pistol when going through school zones... kind of like a plastic molded lid that key locked in the trigger or something.

Man, if it get to it... maybe we can protest the nuttiness of all this by wearing big 'ol gun vaults on our hips

[grammaton76]

I've also gotta say, I like the idea of a key lock for a few reasons.

#1... no rule says the key can't be IN the lock when you're going around with it. If your key is squat and magnetic, it's almost more like a handle than a key.

#2... no rule says it has to be a very complicated key. It can be a handcuff key, for that matter, on a string tied to the lockbox/holster.

Also, the other big thing is that this is neat for driving in a vehicle. I believe with open carry, you have to lock up the gun when driving. When you've got a lockbox holster, you have no extra step of locking up the gun before you start driving.

[MudCamper]

If you drop the transparent idea, then all you are doing is carrying concealed. The locked case is just part of a 12026.x exemption. It does not automatically make it legal.

12025 makes carrying concealed illegal. 12026.1 exempts you from 12025 in a motor vehicle. 12026.2 exempts you from anywhere else (besides a motor vehicle, i.e. walking), only so long as you are going to/from one of the 20 exempted places in 12026.2.

[grammaton76]

If you drop the transparent idea, then all you are doing is carrying concealed. The locked case is just part of a 12026.x exemption. It does not automatically make it legal.

Hmm, I thought locked case (regardless of transparency) was an exemption to pretty much everything. I may however be confusing that with exemption from the otherwise general prohibition against use in a motor vehicle (i.e. everything's illegal in a car, but locked is an exemption).

12025 makes carrying concealed illegal. 12026.1 exempts you from 12025 in a motor vehicle. 12026.2 exempts you from anywhere else (besides a motor vehicle, i.e. walking), only so long as you are going to/from one of the 20 exempted places in 12026.2.

Interesting, will have to do some more reading on these things with an eye towards how transparent / not transparent would affect things. On the surface of things, from what you're saying it looks like a non-transparent "lockbox holster" would be legal if and only if a specific-destination requirement were met in addition to everything else.

[Meplat]

This is shier genious! Combo Lock, spring loaded flip top box. keep the combo punched in all except the last number. One fluid motion and your cocked and loaded. I love it!