Concealed Transport per 12027 (now 25635 & 25640)

[MudCamper]

12027 is a list of exemptions to 12025. I am specifically interested in the transporting wording in two of the subsections:

12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:

(f) Members of any club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets upon established target ranges, whether public or private, while the members are using pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person upon the target ranges, or transporting these firearms unloaded when going to and from the ranges.

(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.

So, clearly, one does not need the 12026.x exemptions under these 2 conditions, which means no locked case is necessary.

What I am not clear on is, what exactly is included in "going to and from" language. 12026.2 for example is specific in stating that "the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances", but 12027 does not include this language. One would think that this means that 12027 is even less restrictive than 12026.2.

How far must one deviate to no longer be covered from the 12027 exemption. Let me give specific examples. Let's say I am driving from my home in Sonoma county, to rural lands in Mendocino county to go hunting, and I have my hunting license with me. Or lets say I am driving from my home in Sonoma county to a private shooting range in Lake county, and I have my shooting club membership card with me. Clearly, in these examples, when I am driving, I can use the 12027 exemption, but could I stop off at Raley's or WalMart for last minute supplies and food, and carry my unloaded, concealed handgun with me outside of my vehicle? I do not want to leave my firearm in the truck where it could be stolen, and I am on my way to an exempted location/activity, and 12027 does not include any "deviations" language at all.

Any opinions, or better, known case law?

[ViPER395]

Firearm laws are written this way in order to screw you and deny you your constitutional rights at the will of law enforcement.

Get used to it.

[MudCamper]

Reviving a dead thread. I never got any answers to this question. 12025 is now 25400 and 12027(g) is now 25640, but my question still stands.

Let's use the following examples:

- Stop at a gas station to buy gas.

- Stop at McDonalds for breakfast.

- Stop off at Wal Mart (or other store) for ammo.

Would these stops still be considered "going to or returning from" my expedition for the purposes of 12027(g) / 25640?

[CitaDeL]

Reviving a dead thread. I never got any answers to this question. 12025 is now 25400 and 12027(g) is now 25640, but my question still stands.

Let's use the following examples:

- Stop at a gas station to buy gas.

- Stop at McDonalds for breakfast.

- Stop off at Wal Mart (or other store) for ammo.

Would these stops still be considered "going to or returning from" my expedition for the purposes of 12027(g) / 25640?

There was not then, nor is there now any limiting qualifier that would preclude any incidental diversion going to or returning from a hunting expedition. So long as you have a license to hunt, how are authorities going to disprove your assertion that you are either coming from or on your way to a hunting expedition? I am not aware of any case law that has further defined this.

This exemption also appears as an exemption to 26350 here;

26366. Section 26350 does not apply to, or affect, the open
carrying of an unloaded handgun by a licensed hunter while
engaged in hunting or while transporting that handgun when going
to or returning from that hunting expedition.

Hunting licenses are cheap and valid year round. And the F and G reg's allow some animals to be taken year around.

[taperxz]

I agree with Citadel, you can't just let your car run out of gas or not stop for pertinent needs like a cup of coffee/food in your travels. Personally i think the laws they make exclude hunters because IMOH they don't want to step on hunters toes when it comes to firearms. Even antis know that people that don't own guns or hunt think people should be able to hunt. Politically, stepping on hunters toes would appear to be a huge infringment on rights that some would see as over stepping the bounds of reasonable. again JMO!

[MudCamper]

This exemption also appears as an exemption to 26350 here;

Yep. I plan to use both 25366 and 25640 the next couple of weekends.

Hunting licenses are cheap and valid year round. And the F and G reg's allow some animals to be taken year around.

Coyote are year round and handguns are a legal method of take. I also carry a call in my pocket.

But I am still curious what some of the heavy hitters here (Gene/Bill/LexArma/etc) think about my scenarios.

[Blaze Kenobi]

Going to go and get my hunting license next week since I see lots of coyotes and bunnies here in LA county.

[MudCamper]

I agree with Citadel, you can't just let your car run out of gas or not stop for pertinent needs like a cup of coffee/food in your travels.

True, but you may be expected to lock up your firearms in your car. While you or I may think it reasonable to continue carrying, a power-tripping LEO likely would not. I just want to know if I would get convicted or if I'd win in court.

[taperxz]

True, but you may be expected to lock up your firearms in your car. While you or I may think it reasonable to continue carrying, a power-tripping LEO likely would not. I just want to know if I would get convicted or if I'd win in court.

I gathered that. I don't see how you could be convicted if the exemption allows travel to and from.

Case and point, traveling to YOUR ULTIMATE DESTINATION. It would be placed upon the court to prove you were NOT traveling to and from your ULTIMATE DESTINATION of hunting or return from. Although IANAL and just my best guess.

Side note : if you hunt yotes so much, why are there so many around