RAWs in National Forests...

[AnarchoPunk]

While listening to the recent public safety committee hearings I heard someone mention that registered assault weapons are not permitted on National Forest lands:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWz9CzU6wN4&t=7m30s

Can anyone verify if this is true? As far as I can tell, RAWs are allowed on public lands that permit the use of firearms:

(c)A person who has registered an assault weapon or registered a .50 BMG rifle under this section may possess it only under any of the following conditions unless a permit allowing additional uses is first obtained under Section 12286:

(6)While on publicly owned land if the possession and use of a firearm described in Section 12276, 12276.1, 12276.5, or 12278, is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land.

National Forests are A OK with firearms, so is there any truth to this guy's statements, or is this just FUD?

[Nahuatl]

There's no shooting in Angeles NF. Probably true for Los Padres, Cleveland and others; look it up. Hunting only, no target shooting. May be different in NorCal. So I haven't a clue why you would choose to hunt with an RAW unless it's another UOC type thing?? If you're cited, and you're completely innocent, still plan on $3-5K, maybe a reduced charge, and wasting several months/multiple court appearances.

When the man with money meets the man with experience, the man with the experience gets the money and the man with the money gets the experience.

[AnarchoPunk]

I see. So it would appear when it comes to hunting/shooting some National Forests have very strict regs, while others default to the standard rules which are pretty wide open. That's not really relevant to the question I asked though, since I was wondering about RAWs in particular. I've done a good bit of searching on this topic already, and I can't seem to find any info. I've read this thread:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457

but again, no specific info about RAWs. Now aside from that you have now roused my curiosity on another topic of interest:

So I haven't a clue why you would choose to hunt with an RAW unless it's another UOC type thing?? If you're cited, and you're completely innocent, still plan on $3-5K, maybe a reduced charge, and wasting several months/multiple court appearances.

Why wouldn't you hunt with a RAW? Is it illegal to do so? Cited for what? Pardon my ignorance, but I am a total noob here. Never the less, come next year this noob will probably find himself in possession of a RAW, so I just want to know what I can legally do with it.

Opinions are welcome, but a link is worth a thousand words. Thanks!

[skibuff]

Unless the NF has changed their stance on it in over the winter it is legal to shoot RAW's on NF land. I shoot my RAW's frequently on NF land and have spoke with several Rangers while shooting the RAW's.

Bring your DOJ letter I know it's not required but there are several NF Rangers around the state that are very strict in regards to Illegal AW's.

[taperxz]

Of note, It is NOT illegal to hunt with a RAW. If hunting only is permitted you may hunt with that RAW.

[wweigle]

I do not believe that there is a blanket prohibition of using RAWs in our National Forests. It my understanding that each National Forest can set its own policies regarding allowed activities, and each National Forest can set a policy prohibiting them if they chose. Basically it has been at the discretion, and political opinion of the head of the individual National Forest administration. The language in the past California laws regarding use of RAWs on public land, including National Forests was a bit ambiguous and even went as far as including language that included the words permission from the National Forest. I have not looked at the law in years, but I determined by reading the laws that it was not very clear if it was legal, and if it was, what was required for it to be legal in a National Forest. I have never used my RAWs on National Forest land for this reason. Probably worth a look at the law again. Just another backdoor prohibition of RAWs.

[Battleicious]

You can shoot in the Los Padres National Forest. I've called the local station station to confirm and have shot in there before.

[CCrawford]

Welcome to CalGuns and search (using the Google search, upper right hand corner of the blue banner bar) and read the many, many threads/topics on RAWs. Cal DOJ BOF webpages can be informative as well, but they are purposefully misleading in places. This is a topic that requires much more information to fully grasp then a "school me on RAWs" post. There is confusion at every level of the criminal justice system over this topic today, so don't feel bad.

Some court cases have changed how the law is applied, but the laws have not been rewritten to comply with what the courts have ruled. Law Enforcement training on this subject varies greatly from one department to the next, so being armed with all the information is unfortunately required so that you can defend yourself legally. Some departments will also push to the edge as most citizens will accept the officer's/department's opinion/position as law, when it may be in error.

Never the less, come next year this noob will probably find himself in possession of a RAW, so I just want to know what I can legally do with it.

You will not own a RAW (Registered Assault Weapon) next year, as if you do not have a RAW now, you certainly will not own one next year under current law. Registration has not been accepted for years and the only way to acquire a new to you RAW would be if the state allows new weapons to be registered by legislation or you become a peace officer with department approval on letterhead or you open a movie prop house. Use of language here is key, specific terms have specific meanings defined within law or later in court cases. Did you really mean what you said?

Now, you may own/buy/make/build something currently legal and one of the onerous bills currently in the legislature becomes law and opens registration for that weapon to become a RAW, but we do not know yet what will pass. Currently the way things are going, your RAW may be a Marlin 60 or a Ruger 10/22. There is currently no amnesty for RAWs.

Please go to the CGF Wiki as a start and read all the material there as a start. Also, please do not take this advise the wrong way. It is meant to inform and guide. But loose language use can get you way too many years in prison!

Hope this helps you,
Criss

[Bruce]

IIRC there's language in the AWB that restricts RAW's to being fired on shooting ranges and private property only.

[bwiese]

CA law: RAWs can be used where expressly permitted by the relevant property owner.

I am wholly unclear whether this exists for National Forests, or that areas where blanket permission for safe shooting really cover this.

[A Ranger/lokel yokel guy in the station really doesn't have authority to give this permission, either as this is policy matter from 'above'.]

Methinks there are often other general shooting restrictions in some NFs that may be a bigger issue.

[There ultimately will be RKBA constitutional issues about Fed law not allowing common-production firearms used on Fed land that are
'not dangerous and unusual' - the interface between state law restrictions on Fed property can possibly lead to 'interesting things'. Remember that Heller was run first in Washington DC. :-) ]

True BLM land allows RAW usage in CA; there is a memo from Dept of Interior, Director of Region 5, that specifically allows this. It was issued in spring of 2003, as I recall and you can find scans of this doc on the net readily.

[j411701]

You can shoot in the Los Padres National Forest. I've called the local station station to confirm and have shot in there before.

You are correct. They do close it at times due to fire danger but gun ranges such as OVGC do stay open. It is always a good idea to call a head.

[skibuff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnarchoPunk View Post
Never the less, come next year this noob will probably find himself in possession of a RAW, so I just want to know what I can legally do with it.

I think he's speculating that his BB gun will become a RAW next year.

[john67elco]

When the man with money meets the man with experience, the man with the experience gets the money and the man with the money gets the experience.

Nice, I just texted that to my 18 year old neighbor thanks.