transfer gun out of ca ?

[tnlrat37]

Hey guys I tried searching and couldn't find what I was lookin for. what im doin is trying to buy my dad an ar and he lives in the boonies in AZ. He says he cant find anything cheap where he is so that's why im lookin, anyway my question is I found a couple rifles in the marketplace here but what is the easiest way to transfer out of state to him. Most guys want ftf for the sale and he hates CA and wont come here so does anyone know the easiest way to do this. My options I can think of are

1. buy it dros in my name and take it to him,--would rather not and legality?
2. meet seller pay for it and have it shipped from ffl to ffl near him, --sounds pricey after all transfer fees and shipping
3. tell him to wait 3-6 months and find something near him, --but hes worried about possible awb coming

Also are the laws the same for interstate intrafamilial transfer from ca to az as compared to az to ca?
thank you

[majtom94]

Hey guys I tried searching and couldn't find what I was lookin for. what im doin is trying to buy my dad an ar and he lives in the boonies in AZ. He says he cant find anything cheap where he is so that's why im lookin, anyway my question is I found a couple rifles in the marketplace here but what is the easiest way to transfer out of state to him. Most guys want ftf for the sale and he hates CA and wont come here so does anyone know the easiest way to do this. My options I can think of are

1. buy it dros in my name and take it to him,--would rather not and legality?
2. meet seller pay for it and have it shipped from ffl to ffl near him, --sounds pricey after all transfer fees and shipping
3. tell him to wait 3-6 months and find something near him, --but hes worried about possible awb coming

Also are the laws the same for interstate intrafamilial transfer from ca to az as compared to az to ca?
thank you

Sounds to me like a simple purchase and a drive to visit a relative. AZ won't give a s**t and come back and fill in Ca Report of Record, list as many as you want its $19. CA won't care when guns leave the state. Hey all or none of this is worth what you paid for it. But I'd don't think I'm too far off. Someone will help i'm sure.

[1681]

i'd say your best option is #3.

there's very low risk of a federal or AZ aw ban, and lawyers can get expensive if you need them.

[fiddletown]

...Also are the laws the same for interstate intrafamilial transfer from ca to az as compared to az to ca?
thank you

No. It's a matter of federal law, and I'll lay it all out for you below.

Sounds to me like a simple purchase and a drive to visit a relative. AZ won't give a s**t and come back and fill in Ca Report of Record, list as many as you want its $19. CA won't care when guns leave the state. Hey all or none of this is worth what you paid for it. But I'd don't think I'm too far off. Someone will help i'm sure.

And thus violate federal law. Both son and father commit a federal felony and become eligible for up to five years in federal prison (plus a bonus of a lifetime loss of gun rights). Great idea.

Here is the whole federal law story on interstate transfers of firearms (not including the rules for those with Curio and Relic licenses and the subject of dual residency):

[1] Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.).

[2] In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.

[3] In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence.

[4] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

[5] There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

[6] The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

Here's what the statutes say:

18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts


...

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph

(A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,

(B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

...

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to

(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

....

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
...

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph

(A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and

(B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

...

[JDay]

Sounds to me like a simple purchase and a drive to visit a relative. AZ won't give a s**t and come back and fill in Ca Report of Record, list as many as you want its $19. CA won't care when guns leave the state. Hey all or none of this is worth what you paid for it. But I'd don't think I'm too far off. Someone will help i'm sure.

If there in no FFL involved in transferring it to his dad it's a felony since he's in a different state. I'd just send dad the money to buy one in Arizona. Less hassle.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[Rm7pr]

Sounds to me like a simple purchase and a drive to visit a relative. AZ won't give a s**t and come back and fill in Ca Report of Record, list as many as you want its $19. CA won't care when guns leave the state. Hey all or none of this is worth what you paid for it. But I'd don't think I'm too far off. Someone will help i'm sure.

I think this guy is pretty close. I'm sure CA don't care when you remove an "evil" AR out of state. As a matter of fact some law enforcement agencies that approve ARs for duty use specify that upon retirement they're suppose sell their AWs to another LEO, turn it in, or sell it out of state.

[JDay]

I think this guy is pretty close. I'm sure CA don't care when you remove an "evil" AR out of state. As a matter of fact some law enforcement agencies that approve ARs for duty use specify that upon retirement they're suppose sell their AWs to another LEO, turn it in, or sell it out of state.

The ATF cares if you do an illegal interstate transfer.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[tnlrat37]

Well what about under sec5 sub b above can I "loan" it to him but keep it in my name for indefinite period. Maybe it would be easier getting it back so he doesn't have to will it back to me later, or did I read that wrong?

[fiddletown]

Well what about under sec5 sub b above can I "loan" it to him but keep it in my name for indefinite period. Maybe it would be easier getting it back so he doesn't have to will it back to me later, or did I read that wrong?

You read it wrong and don't understand the law.

Let's look at the applicable statutes again:

1. 18 USC 922(a)(3), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:

   transport into or receive in the State where he resides ...any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,...

   
   
2. And 18 USC 922(a)(5), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:

   transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person ...who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
   

   (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest ..., and
   
   (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

   ..

So --

1. You may go to another State where (under 18 USC 922(a)(5)) a friend may loan you a gun to, for example, go target shooting together, or an outfitter may rent you a gun for a guided hunt. But if you were to take the gun back to your home State with you, you would be violating 18 USC 922(a)(3), which has no "loan" exception.
   
   
2. You could travel to another State and under 18 USC 922(a)(5) loan a gun to someone temporarily for a lawful sporting purpose. But since there's no "loan" exception under 18 USC 922(a)(3), the person you loan it to would be violating that statute by receiving a gun in his State of residences otherwise obtained from outside his State of residence.
   
   
3. Effectively, since there is no "loan" exception in 18 USC 922(a)(3), a loan of a firearm may not cross state lines.

Bottom line is that if you want to give a gun to your father, under federal law it needs to go through an FFL.

[tnlrat37]

Wow gun laws are long confusing and stupid. They probably do that on purpose just to keep us guessing. Funny thing is I have a lot of leo friends that I have educated on gun laws that had bad info. They say the laws change so much they have to look them up sometimes or contact DAs office before charging people. This is more of a federal thing due to state lines so I'll just try and help him get one out there. They can still buy over the counter or ppt with no paper there anyway, thanks guys

[MAC USMC]

Make no mistake about it Gentlemen, the BATF will hammer anyone involved in gun transactions if they can find a way to do so.

Follow the letter of the law, use a FFl gun shop, pay the fees, keep excellent records on file, take pictures of the firearms involved, and stay out of trouble. Short-cuts will only get you in trouble.

[SVT-40]

Hey guys I tried searching and couldn't find what I was lookin for. what im doin is trying to buy my dad an ar and he lives in the boonies in AZ. He says he cant find anything cheap where he is so that's why im lookin, anyway my question is I found a couple rifles in the marketplace here but what is the easiest way to transfer out of state to him. Most guys want ftf for the sale and he hates CA and wont come here so does anyone know the easiest way to do this. My options I can think of are

1. buy it dros in my name and take it to him,--would rather not and legality?
2. meet seller pay for it and have it shipped from ffl to ffl near him, --sounds pricey after all transfer fees and shipping
3. tell him to wait 3-6 months and find something near him, --but hes worried about possible awb coming

Also are the laws the same for interstate intrafamilial transfer from ca to az as compared to az to ca?
thank you

There is no need to ship a firearm FFL to FFL. Only the receiving party must be a FFL.

So you could provide $$ to a seller in CA for your father and have the seller ship the firearm directly to the FFL in AZ where your father could do the NICS check and other paper work to complete the transfer.

I've found most FFL's in AZ only charge around $35.00 for a transfer.