Non LTC/CCW Vehicle as place of business

[Sir Stunna Lot]

let me clear a couple of things:

Without a CCW:
Business owner can legally conceal carry and loaded, at place of business
Employees can legally open carry and loaded, only with owner's permission at place of business

With CCW:
Business owner can legally conceal carry and loaded anywhere
Emmployees can legally conceal carry and loaded at place of business, only with owner's permission

I can list the PC's if someone really wants me too, most of what i listed are found under exemptions of concealed codes and loaded weapons codes.

[letsgosteelers]

let me clear a couple of things:

Without a CCW:
Business owner can legally conceal carry and loaded, at place of business
Employees can legally open carry and loaded, only with owner's permission at place of business

With CCW:
Business owner can legally conceal carry and loaded anywhere
Emmployees can legally conceal carry and loaded at place of business, only with owner's permission

I can list the PC's if someone really wants me too, most of what i listed are found under exemptions of concealed codes and loaded weapons codes.

How about the original question....without a CCW??

For an example, let's say that the person is physically inside a vehicle (place of business) all day long.

[1681]

one definition for place of business is an office or location where main business transactions are executed and its records are stored. It is necessary to have a place of business filed to the secretary of state for establishing a business.

can you register a vehicle as a place of business with secretary of state?

[letsgosteelers]

without getting into specifics, yes. the vehicle is permitted as a "location". not by the secretary of state but by the DOJ

but going back to the example I posted earlier, it seems that a vehicle can be considered a place of business but its just not clear. then it got into that whole discussion about the law should be clear...yadda yadda yadda

Google people v. Marotta.

The exceptions to the "carrying" of a gun on a person or in a vehicle, are, as already noted, broadly phrased, and plainly do not exclude a vehicle within the contemplation of a "place of business." [128 Cal. App. 3d Supp. 8]

[Shotgun Man]

I don't get it.

The law says you're allowed to have a gun at your place of business. To me, this means a McDonald's restaurant worker is allowed to stash a gun.

Sure, he may be violating company policy, but I don't see how he has violated PC 25400. It is his place of business after all.

Certainly, if you apply the same argument to professionals-- lawyers, doctors, accountants, etc.,-- my argument makes even greater sense.

How can it be argued that the abortion clinic is not the abortionist's place of business, notwithstanding that he doesn't own the practice?

[Librarian]

I don't get it.

The law says you're allowed to have a gun at your place of business. To me, this means a McDonald's restaurant worker is allowed to stash a gun.

Sure, he may be violating company policy, but I don't see how he has violated PC 25400. It is his place of business after all.

Certainly, if you apply the same argument to professionals-- lawyers, doctors, accountants, etc.,-- my argument makes even greater sense.

How can it be argued that the abortion clinic is not the abortionist's place of business, notwithstanding that he doesn't own the practice?

PC 12026.1 had a 'statement of intent' :

The Legislature also enacted an accompanying statement of purpose:
"The purpose of enacting this measure is to abrogate the holding in
People v. Melton, 206 Cal.App.3d 580, insofar as that decision
[234 Cal.App.3d Supp. 20] purports to require the issuance of a
concealed weapons permit in order to carry a pistol, revolver, or
other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, whether
openly or concealed, within the places mentioned in Section 12026
of the Penal Code, by an individual who has a proprietary,
possessory, or substantial ownership interest in the place."

'Proprietary interest' is ownership privilege - hire, fire, set hours and working conditions.

George the Grill Guy ordinarily doesn't have any of "proprietary, possessory, or substantial ownership interest" at the Mickey-Ds where he may work.

My doctor is, apparently, the owner of a medical/professional corporation (I don't really know the details) that includes his office. HE could reasonably carry concealed at work.

A selection of what seems to be the relevant case law is at the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Un...oncealed_Carry (already posted in the thread, but, sadly, it seems unread.)

[letsgosteelers]

Librarian,

Do you have any insight as to the vehicle as place of business question?

thanks!

[Librarian]

Librarian,

Do you have any insight as to the vehicle as place of business question?

thanks!

Failing taxi (Marotta), my opinion is that doesn't work. I have not heard of anyone managing to extend the Marotta opinion to something like a food coach - drive from place to place, provide services/products without leaving the vehicle.

But it may have happened despite my not hearing about it. Definitely a time for securing a paid legal opinion before acting (or giving up entirely!).

[mrdd]

I don't get it.

The law says you're allowed to have a gun at your place of business. To me, this means a McDonald's restaurant worker is allowed to stash a gun.

Sure, he may be violating company policy, but I don't see how he has violated PC 25400. It is his place of business after all.

Certainly, if you apply the same argument to professionals-- lawyers, doctors, accountants, etc.,-- my argument makes even greater sense.

How can it be argued that the abortion clinic is not the abortionist's place of business, notwithstanding that he doesn't own the practice?

Because an employee does not possess the place of business through ownership or some contractual interest. An employee just works for the employer at that location.

[OceanDreamer]

Is property ownership necessary for place of business? What if your business location is temporary, such as vacant home?

I am a real estate broker, and I have an investor client who buys a lot of houses sight unseen and then sends me and my partner out to check on them. Because of the price he pays, most of these houses are in high crime areas and we more often than not have problems with squatters.

When I go out and check these places out, I always carry. IMHO I am covered by the "place of business" scenario as you mentioned above (since as a broker I own the business and I am not an employee of another person), and also (more importantly) I have the permission of the owner of the private property to carry while I am there.

[1681]

I am a real estate broker, and I have an investor client who buys a lot of houses sight unseen and then sends me and my partner out to check on them. Because of the price he pays, most of these houses are in high crime areas and we more often than not have problems with squatters.

When I go out and check these places out, I always carry. IMHO I am covered by the "place of business" scenario as you mentioned above (since as a broker I own the business and I am not an employee of another person), and also (more importantly) I have the permission of the owner of the private property to carry while I am there.

so you have a contract with a slump lord to work on his behalf and carry concealed? did he promised you unlimited legal support to keep you out of jail, plus retirement/death benefits?

what's his name? which mafia family is he the head of? ;-)

[El Toro]

....When I go out and check these places out, I always carry. IMHO I am covered by the "place of business" scenario as you mentioned above (since as a broker I own the business and I am not an employee of another person), and also (more importantly) I have the permission of the owner of the private property to carry while I am there.

Do you obtain a signed document from your client? I ask because my line of work is similar and I do have a written contract for my services but I have not yet added a clause that would allow my carrying on their property.

[Librarian]

I am a real estate broker, and I have an investor client who buys a lot of houses sight unseen and then sends me and my partner out to check on them. Because of the price he pays, most of these houses are in high crime areas and we more often than not have problems with squatters.

When I go out and check these places out, I always carry. IMHO I am covered by the "place of business" scenario as you mentioned above (since as a broker I own the business and I am not an employee of another person), and also (more importantly) I have the permission of the owner of the private property to carry while I am there.

I think you need to take your opinion and run it by your lawyer. As already noted, courts seem to believe generally that a 'place of business' is one fixed location.

While I understand the need, making that decision in CA is perilous. Carry in public in CA is governed by the laws on License to Carry. Anecdotes here suggest others in similar situations have been both denied LTC in places, granted LTC in other places.