Brother to Brother Intra-Familia

[shawnyteee]

I did a search and found a thread but it wasn't in the case that the person getting the transfer is under 21. So heres the situation.

Can I get my brother (21yo, HSC) to buy me a pistol and intra-familia it to me (19, HSC)?


Some people said no and its only grandparent to parent or parent to sibling.

They said that the Brother must PPT it to the younger Brother. Can the younger brother ( me 19yo) do PPT with a pistol? or must I be 21?


Some whats dealio? I'll greatly appreciate any advice or un-guaranteed legal counsel. Thanks!

[leelaw]

No, a brother may not intrafamilial transfer a pistol to a brother.

That transfer must be covered by a PPT, if it goes direct from brother-to-brother. You may not be PPTd a pistol until you are 21 years of age or older.

The pistol would have to go: Brother --> Parent or grandparent --> You.

[shawnyteee]

Thanks for the sad news.

Too bad that my parents are part of the Brady experience.

[shawnyteee]

Sorry but just another quick question.
Even without me legally owning the firearms.
Is it still ok if my brother buys it for himself, and I borrow it for the range?

[leelaw]

You may borrow a handgun from a known person (brother, friend, etc..) for up to 30 days. You must have a Handgun Safety Certificate.

ETA: Thanks Monkeyman, forgot the under 21 bit.

[mymonkeyman]

(3) (A) No person, corporation, or firm shall sell, loan, or transfer a firearm to a minor, nor sell a handgun to an individual under 21 years of age.
(B) Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to or affect those circumstances set forth in subdivision (p) of Section 12078.

(p) (1) Paragraph (3) of subdivision (a) and subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the loan of a firearm that is not a handgun to a minor, with the express permission of the parent or legal guardian of the minor, if the loan does not exceed 30 days in duration and is for a lawful purpose.
(2) Paragraph (3) of subdivision (a) of Section 12072, subdivision (d) of Section 12072, and subdivision (b) of Section 12801 shall not apply to the loan of a handgun to a minor by a person who is not the parent or legal guardian of the minor if all of the following circumstances exist:
(A) The minor has the written consent of his or her parent or legal guardian that is presented at the time of, or prior to the time of, the loan, or is accompanied by his or her parent or legal guardian at the time the loan is made.
(B) The minor is being loaned the firearm for the purpose of engaging in a lawful, recreational sport, including, but not limited to, competitive shooting, or agricultural, ranching, or hunting activity, or a motion picture, television, or video production, or entertainment or theatrical event, the nature of which involves the use of a firearm.
(C) The duration of the loan does not exceed the amount of time that is reasonably necessary to engage in the lawful, recreational sport, including, but not limited to, competitive shooting, or agricultural, ranching, or hunting activity, or a motion picture, television, or video production, or entertainment or theatrical event, the nature of which involves the use of a firearm.
(D) The duration of the loan does not, in any event, exceed 10 days.
(3) Paragraph (3) of subdivision (a), and subdivision (d), of Section 12072, and subdivision (b) of Section 12801 shall not apply to the loan of a handgun to a minor by his or her parent or legal guardian if both of the following circumstances exist:
(A) The minor is being loaned the firearm for the purposes of engaging in a lawful, recreational sport, including, but not limited to, competitive shooting, or agricultural, ranching, or hunting activity, or a motion picture, television, or video production, or entertainment or theatrical event, the nature of which involves the use of a firearm.
(B) The duration of the loan does not exceed the amount of time that is reasonably necessary to engage in the lawful, recreational sport, including, but not limited to, competitive shooting, or agricultural, ranching, or hunting activity, or a motion picture, television, or video production, or entertainment or theatrical event, the nature of which involves the use of a firearm.
(4) Paragraph (3) of subdivision (a), and subdivision (d), of Section 12072 shall not apply to the transfer or loan of a firearm that is not a handgun to a minor by his or her parent or legal guardian.
(5) Paragraph (3) of subdivision (a), and subdivision (d), of Section 12072 shall not apply to the transfer or loan of a firearm that is not a handgun to a minor by his or her grandparent who is not the legal guardian of the minor if the transfer is done with the express permission of the parent or legal guardian of the minor.
(6) Subparagraph (A) of paragraph (3) of subdivision (a) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the sale of a handgun if both of the following requirements are satisfied:
(A) The sale is to a person who is at least 18 years of age.
(B) The firearm is an antique firearm as defined in paragraph (16) of subsection (a) of Section

So without your parent's permission, the answer is no. Leelaw: the rules are different for minors, or for those 18-20, for handguns. Also the generic loans of handguns (not to minors or 18-20 for handguns) require either A) the recipient be known to the owner, the recipient have an HSC, and it be less than 30 days, or B) less than 3 days and be in the continuous presence of the handgun owner. There are also a few more specific exceptions for loans, but again not for minors or 18-20 for handguns.

[shawnyteee]

o thanks alot for the advice.

so to some things up. I need a written notice of my parents consent of my brother loaning me the handgun for recreational shooting purposes ( gun range), and if in small chances that I get stop by a LEO, all I need to do is present the written consent and explain that the firearm belongs to my brother and I borrow it for the range.

[mymonkeyman]

o thanks alot for the advice.

so to some things up. I need a written notice of my parents consent of my brother loaning me the handgun for recreational shooting purposes ( gun range), and if in small chances that I get stop by a LEO, all I need to do is present the written consent and explain that the firearm belongs to my brother and I borrow it for the range.

This seems to be what the statute says, as long as you only have the gun as long as necessary to go to and from the range (and no more than 10 days under any circumstances) and you are transporting it legally (unloaded in locked box/trunk, not glove compartment/utility compartment of car), with the permission slip, it should be okay. You might also want to have an HSC (because the general loan requirement requires it when not in continuous presence), but the plain language of the relevant exception for minors does not require it.


Also, you might want to check with the range, because it is entirely possible that a range could prohibit people under 21 from shooting handguns when unaccompanied by over 21 year olds.

Lastly, it is probably a bad idea to just volunteer information relating to guns to an LEO. Answer questions truthfully if you choose to answer, but you don't have to answer questions (other than identifying yourself), never consent to a search, and keep your guns in the trunk (greater legal protection that way against an illegal search).

[savageevo]

its funny how when a High school graduate enters the military, they are issued a rifle and pistol and able to use it when they are 18 - 20 and the government trust them 110%, but when you are a civilian local government never trust you.

[mecam]

Many ranges would want to see your DL/ID. If you are not 21, you will not be allowed to shoot handguns without an adult with you.