Split PPT

[Nick5811]

Straw purchase is only if the person receiving the firearm cannot legally own it in the first place (i.e. Felon). Having his LE friend transfer through FFL is legitimate in my book.

Not to beat a dead horse, or to jack the thread/topic any more, but that's exactly what it sounds like to me... A gun that a person could not legally get his hands on (because it's not on the cali approved list) is provided to him via his friend with a LEO exemption.

Since it was originally purchased by the LEO with the intent of giving it to his friend, it sounds pretty much like a straw purchase to me.

If it's not a straw purchase, and it's totally legit, can your LEO friend purchase a Kimber Covert II (with the digi cam laser grips) for me? How about a Colt AR-15 or a Mac-10?

California won't let me buy those, but your friend can buy them for me.


I'm just saying it's a slippery slope gentlemen, tread lightly.
Peace.

[SemiAutoSam]

A straw purchase would be if my LEO Buddy would DROS the MAC10 and then give it to me.

He does not do this.

What he does is PPT the Mac10 to me via his FFL then and only then after my DROS and my 10 day wait do I take possession of the MAC10.

With regard to my LEO helping you get a non listed Kimber pistol... You need to cultivate a relationship with your OWN LEO.

Easier to understand ?

Not to beat a dead horse, or to jack the thread/topic any more, but that's exactly what it sounds like to me... A gun that a person could not legally get his hands on (because it's not on the Cali approved list) is provided to him via his friend with a LEO exemption.

Since it was originally purchased by the LEO with the intent of giving it to his friend, it sounds pretty much like a straw purchase to me.

If it's not a straw purchase, and it's totally legit, can your LEO friend purchase a Kimber Covert II (with the digi cam laser grips) for me? How about a Colt AR-15 or a Mac-10?

California won't let me buy those, but your friend can buy them for me.


I'm just saying it's a slippery slope gentlemen, tread lightly.
Peace.

[Librarian]

If it's not a straw purchase, and it's totally legit, can your LEO friend purchase a Kimber Covert II (with the digi cam laser grips) for me? How about a Colt AR-15 or a Mac-10?

California won't let me buy those, but your friend can buy them for me.

No, no, we're talking about different silly laws here. The Kimber, probably would work. The Colt is a California AW, and while he could buy one with a letter from his chief, he couldn't resell it outside law-enforcement. Mac 10 is a sub-machinegun; he'd need a machinegun permit to buy it, and you'd need one to buy it from him. (Or, the semi-auto Mac 10 is a named AW, I believe - same problem as the Colt.)

As to straw purchase, some agencies say

A straw purchase occurs when a buyer purchases a firearm and transfers it
into the possession of a restricted (denied) person. This is a violation of federal
law,

(Utah BCI), and ATF is most concerned with ineligibles

. The program, called Don’t Lie for the Other Guy, was developed to educate federal firearms licensees (FFLs) on how to better detect and deter potential straw purchases and to raise public awareness that it is a serious crime to purchase a firearm for someone who cannot legally do so. Don’t Lie follows another successful firearms industry program, Partnership for Progress,which held a seminar last month in the greater Indianapolis area and was attended by more than 135 dealers and their employees.

The campaign drives home the message that anyone attempting an illegal firearm purchase faces a stiff federal penalty: Purchase a gun for someone who can’t and buy yourself 10 years in jail

[Mssr. Eleganté]

What he does is PPT the Mac10 to me via his FFL then and only then after my DROS and my 10 day wait do I take possession of the MAC10.

These LEO off-roster buys and "split" PPT's that you do are all pretty slick, Sam, but when are you going to let us all in on the big secret? How do you DROS guns at a Dealer when you have no California Driver's License?

Teach us how to do that and you'd be 'da MAN!!!

[SemiAutoSam]

Not to get picky here but the Mac10 that my LEO buddy brought into California and a month or so later (after he had his fill of playing with it) did the PPT DROS to me.

It wasn't a listed AW and the threaded barrel was swapped with one that had the threads removed.

You can check out the thread that deals with the transfer of the Non Roberti Roos listed MAC10.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=69263&highlight=MAC

No, no, we're talking about different silly laws here. The Kimber, probably would work. The Colt is a California AW, and while he could buy one with a letter from his chief, he couldn't resell it outside law-enforcement. Mac 10 is a sub-machinegun; he'd need a machinegun permit to buy it, and you'd need one to buy it from him. (Or, the semi-auto Mac 10 is a named AW, I believe - same problem as the Colt.)

[bwiese]

From Bardwell site:

• U.S. v. Pierson, 139 F.3d 501 (5th Cir. 1998)
  
• U.S. v. Polk, 118 F.3d 286 (5th Cir. 1997)
  ......More interestingly, the court impliedly rejects the 9th circuit en banc decision in US v. Moore, and decides that the defendant cannot be convicted of a straw purchase where the true purchaser, acting through the strawman, could have legally purchased the gun himself, as the defendant who orchestrated the alleged straw purchase at hand, could have. The court said there can only be a straw purchase where the true buyer, acting through the strawman, was legally unable to buy the gun.

Note that the 'legally unable' meant prohibited due to felony, etc.

The non-Rostered handgun came thru a legal path therefore the person is not ineligible - only other direct path is ineligible. Finding of an alternate legal path is fine.

Now, since then, wording on 4473 questionnaire has changed so perhaps money should not change hands initially (to avoid 4473 perjury charges). If 3 days later the LE buyer turns around and PPTs to another non-LE dude thru CA FFL, that's totally fine.

[I will note that this was somewhat related to various the legal issues for Ben Cannon's OLL group buy with Calif DOJ over the last 1.5 yrs - and when Ca DOJ tried to get BATF involved they just laughed it off.

And as you can see, Alison had to send out a 'you won' letter - even though it said "you could be prosecuted...' - which was BS as it was a total surrender, because if he coulda been prosecuted, he woulda been prosecuted. When you get 'no file' and all property returned, that's a total win other than lawyer fees.]