Ok to shoot if attacker isn't facing you?

[blockfort]

I just saw the video of the 71 year old guy who shot two armed robbers in Florida. Most of his shots were made when the attackers were not directly facing him. The robber closest to him turned away and that's when the old man fired his weapon. His life wasn't threatened at the moment he shot, but the armed robbers could have turned and fired at anyone at any moment. Is it legally "ok" to shoot someone in the side or back and claim self defense?

http://youtu.be/KFW3bwXIcWc

[JackRydden224]

I just saw the video of the 71 year old guy who shot two armed robbers in Florida. Most of his shots were made when the attackers were not directly facing him. The robber closest to him turned away and that's when the old man fired his weapon. His life wasn't threatened at the moment he shot, but the armed robbers could have turned and fired at anyone at any moment. Is it legally "ok" to shoot someone in the side or back and claim self defense?

From what ADA Jack McCoy told me it is okay to shoot under that circumstances to prevent harm to the 3rd party. In that case everyone else besides the old man and the robbers are 3rd party and it is reasonable to think that all 3rd party members' lives are in danger.

[OleCuss]

Yes, you can shoot them in the back or side on occasion.

You have a situation where people are being threatened with deadly force. It needn't necessarily be the shooter him/herself who is being threatened in order to justify the use of deadly force.

But there has to be a realistic threat involved.

So if the perps are threatening you, turn their back to you in order to threaten another - take your shot at stopping them.

But if they have turned to leave and appear to no longer constitute a threat to anyone, hold your fire.

Don't ever shoot anyone because you can justify doing so. You only shoot to stop the perp from hurting someone. If it appears they are not going to cause serious harm, hold your fire.

[SilverTauron]

Its very situational. The DA in Florida could have pursued charges against the old man for shooting the perps in the back,but he declined to do so . That doesn't mean we won't be facing a manslaughter rap if we do the same thing.

Note that intentionally shooting when the bad guy is fleeing is a different situation than firing on a felon in mid attack who spins around from the gunshots or realizes far too late he made a mistake.

In that situation by the time you realize he's turned around and cease shooting you'll have put several bullets into his back out of cognitive delay. The Medical Examiner reports the bad guy has several holes in his back, the prosecutor makes some phone calls, and you get to have an expensive session in court proving that you didn't murder the perp. Mas Ayoob has several articles detailing the latter situation.

[VictorFranko]

Years ago, my friend, who was a private detective and apartment building manager, heard his teenage son scream out in front of their building.
Dan came running out to find his son stabbed with a screwdriver, and the perp running away.
Dan drew and shot the perp in the back, killing him.
Dan was sentenced to 15 to life.
Found a link to the incident from 1996!
Link

[Big Ben]

Another factor to consider is, where is the perp running to? Is he fleeing the location, or is he running for cover to return fire?

[blockfort]

Thanks. I am now designing an IDPA course around the incident...

[Aldemar]

If a bad guy is shooting at a 3rd party and has his back to you, I would think you would justified in shooting him before he has a chance to turn around and threaten you.

That said, I live in the City of Los Angeles. Chances of my getting a LTC are zero so assuming I was carrying it would be illegally. What would happen to a individual in that situation? Not good I would imagine.

[AK all day]

What if you have already Been directly fired at? Can you assume that when they turn their back to run, they are not seeking cover/reload possibly like someone else had said? I think I will take my chances in court than take a chance with my life.

[lawaia]

There is no simple answer. The circumstances will dictate justification.

[Silverback]

[QUOTE=blockfort;8958771] Is it legally "ok" to shoot someone in the side or back and claim self defense?

In California? What does legal have to do with anything?

[Dark Paladin]

If a bad guy is shooting at a 3rd party and has his back to you, I would think you would justified in shooting him before he has a chance to turn around and threaten you.

That said, I live in the City of Los Angeles. Chances of my getting a LTC are zero so assuming I was carrying it would be illegally. What would happen to a individual in that situation? Not good I would imagine.

If you have a restraining order on file, you can theoretically conceal carry*:

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/25600.html

(a) A violation of Section 25400 is justifiable when a
person who possesses a firearm reasonably believes that person is in
grave danger because of circumstances forming the basis of a current
restraining order issued by a court against another person who has
been found to pose a threat to the life or safety of the person who
possesses the firearm. This section may not apply when the
circumstances involve a mutual restraining order issued pursuant to
Division 10 (commencing with Section 6200) of the Family Code absent
a factual finding of a specific threat to the person's life or
safety. It is not the intent of the Legislature to limit, restrict,
or narrow the application of current statutory or judicial authority
to apply this or other justifications to a defendant charged with
violating Section 25400 or committing another similar offense.
(b) Upon trial for violating Section 25400, the trier of fact
shall determine whether the defendant was acting out of a reasonable
belief that the defendant was in grave danger.

*Subject to DA and judge's interpretation. IANAL, YMMV.

[ap3572001]

I just saw the video of the 71 year old guy who shot two armed robbers in Florida. Most of his shots were made when the attackers were not directly facing him. The robber closest to him turned away and that's when the old man fired his weapon. His life wasn't threatened at the moment he shot, but the armed robbers could have turned and fired at anyone at any moment. Is it legally "ok" to shoot someone in the side or back and claim self defense?

http://youtu.be/KFW3bwXIcWc

Every shooting is different. there no simple answer to Your question.

From working as an LEO for almost 20 years now, I can tell You that self defense is not pistol duel or a boxing match.

I have never heard of a legal obligation that a person who is protecting their life or life of their loved ones MUST face the attacker(s).

There are many questions.

How many attackers are there? What type of weapons they have? What have they ALREADY done? Who are they? What will likely happen if You do not take that shot? And many more.....

[SGTKane]

As has been said, its very situational and very state/DA specific. Its up to you, you have to decide, and I recommend pre-deciding because in a firefight you shouldn't be taking the time to think, how you are going to react. Know the risks. You could go to jail for murder. Or you could go free. You could face civil suits. Or not.

Much of it is dependent upon the prosecutor. Most states allow their prosecutors great deal of discretion, on how they proceed. That means in a state like CA (or NYC for that matter) you should shoot a career criminal who has been convicted multiple times but never done any serious jail time (pleads to lesser charges at the prosecutors discretion)and you'd end up doing 15 to life (again at the prosecutors discretion).

[jamesob]

who says the threat is over once they turn their back? if you pull your weapon while their facing you, whats going to happen? if you see a window to pull your weapon and shoot while their not looking, you better take it.