I don't see how the healthcare bill passing can affect the 2nd amendment.

[vantec08]

Government run healthcare is an abomination. The Bible told me so.
Israel has gov't healthcare. And the 4th longest life expectancy.
BTW, this isn't gov't run healthcare we're getting. It's gov't regulated healthcare. I'm sick of people confusing the two.

Government run health care is an abomination. Reality tells me so. This isnt Israel. I am sick of the short-sighted who dont get that private medical insurance will be driven out and we will all be at the mercy of government bureaurcrats. You know, the DMV or passport bureau making direct decisions over health care. Nothing confusing there.


If you drive a car, I'll tax the street,

If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat.

If you get too cold, I'll tax the heat,

If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet.

-- The Beatles in "The Taxman"

[OleCuss]

We keep missing what should be our primary concern.

Obamacare at its root is not really about healthcare, it is about control.

You put our government even more tightly in control of healthcare and you will eventually figure out that in the US, the "elites" believe that healthcare is all-encompassing.

Income inequality is a medical risk factor (yes, there are many articles in medical magazines such as JAMA and NEJM which sing that refrain).

Personal habits are risk factors.

Wrong thoughts are risk factors.

You would be hard put to find any aspect of your life which is not considered to be medically significant and worth interfering with.

Firearms are an incredibly big part of the agenda of those who push for more governmental involvement in medicine. Anyone who thinks this will not be leveraged in attempts to destroy your RKBA has just not been paying attention. Just wait to see how they start lobbying about the cost to the medical system of those who have been injured by ordinance (yup, you can bet they'll try to include veterans who've been bombed in Iraq and Afghanistan, etc.).

Right now, a huge amount of the cost of medicine comes from the regulations associated with Medicare and MedicAid. More comes from the fact that the lawyers have ensured that the necessary tort reform does not happen - there is a lot of garbage done just to avoid lawsuits. And then you have to consider the promulgated HEDIS scores and the like which promote "quality" which may not be recognized as such by those who understand the science behind the various recommendations.

If you love liberty you will hate the government morass which Obamacare is. I once saw an organizational chart (maybe a flowchart?) showing as best they could tell just how decisions and policies would be set - it was dizzyingly complex and of a nature to guarantee dysfunction.

Found a link to the chart: http://www.foundry.org/wp-content/up...care-chart.jpg

Enjoy a system run by a bewildering array of bureaucrats and politicians. You and your care providers will be afterthoughts.

[erik_26]

This about sums it up....

--James May, "I know when I am too hot."

--Jeremy Clarkson, "I don't need the government to tell me to have a drink of water and to put sun cream on, leave us alone!"


Our government needs to leave us alone.

[EM2]

The SC Judgment provided us a Fascist system. Fascism is the merging of business and govt passions. The health insurance coverage providers had written this regulation. Government associates beholden to these business people approved it. Now, we are compelled to buy a private organizations product.

The SCOTUS did not provide us with anything, they simply affirmed what our illustrious conress & pres forced upon us.

This was not private buisness partnering with government to screw us.
This was utopian idealists pushing their agenda on the population as a whole.
These utopians are an evil lot and must be resisted at all costs if we are to be a free peoples.

[HBrebel]

Herein lies the problem, or at least part of it. You're setting a dollar amount which YOU deem to be fair for SOMEONE ELSE to pay. But how do YOU or ANYONE ELSE get to decide how much money is fair to steal from ME to pay for a service I don't want or need or feel like participating in.

Saying that person X makes this much, so this much is nothing to him, is easy for YOU, because YOU didn't work for HIS money, HE did! Why shouldn't HE decide what HE wants to do with it?!

agreed

[Faxon]

How about this:
Obamacare decides gun owners must pay twice as much for their insurance. Or twice as much "tax'.
Obamacare forces DROS records to be fully exposed, thus filling their coffers with the money of every person who has purchased a firearm.
Sounds quite likely to me.
That, and keeping track of how many hamburgers you eat every year.

[SanPedroShooter]

You can see how over regulating something has lead to unfair or at least questionable taxing methods.


Look at transfering a gun from out of state through a CA FFL. The BOE knows you bought something and didnt pay tax, so they hit you at the transfer point and call it a 'sale' because they can. They've got you over a barrel.

They could never do something like this is a free state because the transfer is just that, a transfer, you fill out your 4473 and take it home.

Being on the hook for this 'existence tax' is could easily escalate into every aspect of your life. You exist dont you?

[bandook]

This might be crazy but when you take this thing out to the very end what happens when the government finally takes over all aspects of free trade? You make $50K a year so a gallon of milk costs you $1. You make $250K a year so a gallon of milk cost you $5. You make $0K a year so your gallon of milk is free.

Have you been sleeping? its already like that. Its called 'fair share taxation'.

Essentially, if the government takes away a huge chunk of your income as taxes, that gallon of milk IS costing you much more than what it costs someone whose net tax rate is half of yours (or pays no taxes)

And for the lowest bracket, there is something known as Earned Income Credit. (EIC) via which your tax refund can be GREATER than the Federal tax you ponied up during the year.

(EIC is not bad. As you actually need to have earned income in the first place to be eligible, it is FAR better than plain old welfare checks)

[offdutyalot]

NO! Take care of yourself. You just got out of the ARMY where they take care of your every need --food, clothing, housing, and medical care. Did you like the government being mommy and daddy? Did you get a free lunch in school too? Someone has to pay for this and it ain't some e-4 in the military. It's the hard working middle class American's. Sorry but making me buy insurance is just as wrong as making me buy car insurance. By the way, my car insurance premiums doubled when they made car insurance mandatory--and they said they would go down because everyone was insured.

+1

Take, take, take..........but when the takers are affected, it's our fault.

If the government can impose on us in the form of something as massive as health care, of course 2A can be affected.

No offense OP, but you don't seem to realize that when government gains momentum of this magnitude, it's nearly impossible to stop without reliving history, i.e. the reason this country was founded; to escape tryanny. Where are we going to escape to???

Sometimes, we have to think of the future ramifications of letting our government take control of private issues that arise from personal choices.

-Mike