CA DOJ New Reg Proposals for CCW

[Helmut]

Enjoy!

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/ccwl

[9Cal_OC]

That vampire clause is coming back this year apparently as it’s hinted in the regulations:

• prescribe the uniform design for signs allowing CCW licenseholders to carry firearms on private property and places of worship.

[lastinline]

Did anyone honestly expect California to simply sit back and allow more people to carry guns in public? It is the mission of communists to do everything possible to rape the good people. Allowing them the means to fight back is simply unthinkable. We all knew this BS would ramp up eventually.

[Gun Kraft]

Hawaii's vampire rule was given the preliminary OK where CA's was not because it included the verbal and written permissions. I fully expected CA to take note and adopt similar language.

[riderr]

Hawaii's vampire rule was given the preliminary OK where CA's was not because it included the verbal and written permissions. I fully expected CA to take note and adopt similar language.

Yup. The judge literally told CA how to push it through. I totally expected the grand comeback.

[Big Chudungus]

That vampire clause is coming back this year apparently as it’s hinted in the regulations:

• prescribe the uniform design for signs allowing CCW licenseholders to carry firearms on private property and places of worship.

QRD on "vamp clause"? is it that a sign would be affirmatively required in those places for CCW to be legal?

[Rickybillegas]

QRD on "vamp clause"? is it that a sign would be affirmatively required in those places for CCW to be legal?

According to the HI ruling, a sign isn't even required. Any verbal or written approval is sufficient.

[Roering]

I wonder if one can reasonably assert that since there is no sign prohibiting firearms on the premises that approval is implied. I suppose it just depends how far you can stretch that.

[Rickybillegas]

I wonder if one can reasonably assert that since there is no sign prohibiting firearms on the premises that approval is implied. I suppose it just depends how far you can stretch that.

Hopefully it never comes to that because right now, in Ca. no permission is required by law. However this just illustrates how ridiculous this would play out:
Remember, under HI ruling only a verbal is required.

1. Somebody in ACE hardware sees printing and tells the manager.
2. Manager calls the cops.
3. Cops confront the permitted "do you have permission to be here?"
4. Permitted: " I got a verbal from one of the employees a few weeks ago, name was Jim".
5. Cops ask the Manager: " is Jim here so we can ask him if he gave permission?"
6. Manager: "Today is Jims day off"
7. Cop: " can we call Jim to see if he gave permission?"
8. Manager calls Jim: no answer, goes to voice mail.

See how ridiculous this can get? Talk about a waste of LEO resources.
But of course, as others on this board have pointed out many times, it's not about gun safety, but about the chilling effect imposed on law abiding gun owners.

[splithoof]

Hopefully it never comes to that because right now, in Ca. no permission is required by law. However this just illustrates how ridiculous this would play out:
Remember, under HI ruling only a verbal is required.

1. Somebody in ACE hardware sees printing and tells the manager.
2. Manager calls the cops.
3. Cops confront the permitted "do you have permission to be here?"
4. Permitted: " I got a verbal from one of the employees a few weeks ago, name was Jim".
5. Cops ask the Manager: " is Jim here so we can ask him if he gave permission?"
6. Manager: "Today is Jims day off"
7. Cop: " can we call Jim to see if he gave permission?"
8. Manager calls Jim: no answer, goes to voice mail.

See how ridiculous this can get? Talk about a waste of LEO resources.
But of course, as others on this board have pointed out many times, it's not about gun safety, but about the chilling effect imposed on law abiding gun owners.

I see this playing out a slightly different way:
5: Cops: “We are taking your weapon. Contact the CCW unit for its return after their investigation. If you are found to have been in compliance, you may start the LEGR process to recover your firearm. If found to be carrying out of policy, your weapon is to be destroyed, and your case referred to the District Attorney’s office for follow up.
6: Manager Hi-Fives employee, saying “we got another one”.
7: Democrats rejoice.

[Rickybillegas]

I see this playing out a slightly different way:
5: Cops: “We are taking your weapon. Contact the CCW unit for its return after their investigation. If you are found to have been in compliance, you may start the LEGR process to recover your firearm. If found to be carrying out of policy, your weapon is to be destroyed, and your case referred to the District Attorney’s office for follow up.
6: Manager Hi-Fives employee, saying “we got another one”.
7: Democrats rejoice.

There are of course many possible scenarios ranging from confiscation to nothing.
Either way, it's a waste of LEO resources and crosses the line from stupid to ridiculous.

Well, the folks in Hawaii that have permits have been dealing with this very scenario (verbal or written permission required)
since the Sept. 6 Wolford ruling in reality, not theory, so I wonder
how it's playing out for them. Every now and then I check into r/HIGuns but it's pretty dead.

[BAJ475]

There are of course many possible scenarios ranging from confiscation to nothing.
Either way, it's a waste of LEO resources and crosses the line from stupid to ridiculous.

Well, the folks in Hawaii that have permits have been dealing with this very scenario (verbal or written permission required)
since the Sept. 6 Wolford ruling in reality, not theory, so I wonder
how it's playing out for them. Every now and then I check into r/HIGuns but it's pretty dead.

Slightly different scenario. Someone in an Ace hardware store in Idaho sees a customer open carrying and points the person out to the manager. The manager tells the customer that gun parts are on isle 10.

[splithoof]

Slightly different scenario. Someone in an Ace hardware store in Idaho sees a customer open carrying and points the person out to the manager. The manager tells the customer that gun parts are on isle 10.

Amen!
On a side note, I find it interesting in that EVERY SINGLE TIME I go through the Boise airport, my checked baggage gets the complete and full inspection by the TSA folks, in my presence. They actually inspect my firearm (usually a small revolver), paw through my laundry, look deep inside the checked boots from the case, open up my shaving kit, fondle the tube of toothpaste, swab the ENTIRE interior surfaces of the case after EVERYTHING is removed, look in the jacket sleeves, etc. At least they let me put it all back, as long as I’m not wearing any garment with long sleeves. I have been through this so many times that I’ve lost count.
Now, when I approach their counter I immediately (and politely in a friendly way) ask if their manager can come out, as the alarms are going to go off, and he needs to be there to oversee the whole episode. Sure enough, it happens every time.
I have gotten to know by first name several of the agents and their supervisors through this, and they recognize me and ask how things are going. Because of all this at Boise, I must give extra time before my flight leaves. Contrast that to LAX, where this has NEVER yet happened, and the process is much faster.
BTW, I have TSA Pre-check, and Global Entry status….guess I’ve been flagged for some reason.

[BAJ475]

Amen!
On a side note, I find it interesting in that EVERY SINGLE TIME I go through the Boise airport, my checked baggage gets the complete and full inspection by the TSA folks, in my presence. They actually inspect my firearm (usually a small revolver), paw through my laundry, look deep inside the checked boots from the case, open up my shaving kit, fondle the tube of toothpaste, swab the ENTIRE interior surfaces of the case after EVERYTHING is removed, look in the jacket sleeves, etc. At least they let me put it all back, as long as I’m not wearing any garment with long sleeves. I have been through this so many times that I’ve lost count.
Now, when I approach their counter I immediately (and politely in a friendly way) ask if their manager can come out, as the alarms are going to go off, and he needs to be there to oversee the whole episode. Sure enough, it happens every time.
I have gotten to know by first name several of the agents and their supervisors through this, and they recognize me and ask how things are going. Because of all this at Boise, I must give extra time before my flight leaves. Contrast that to LAX, where this has NEVER yet happened, and the process is much faster.
BTW, I have TSA Pre-check, and Global Entry status….guess I’ve been flagged for some reason.

Must be Boise. Other than check to see that there is a tag on my locked gun case, I have never had TSA or anyone ask to inspect my firearms. Since you seem to be on a friendly basis, why not ask them what they are looking for? Surely, then can see your firearms and any ammo you may have on their X-ray machines.

[splithoof]

Must be Boise. Other than check to see that there is a tag on my locked gun case, I have never had TSA or anyone ask to inspect my firearms. Since you seem to be on a friendly basis, why not ask them what they are looking for? Surely, then can see your firearms and any ammo you may have on their X-ray machines.

I have asked, and every time it is a different answer. Most of time the supervisor says because “we have a new trainee”, which is obvious because another TSA agent is explaining everything to them as they perform the inspection. Then the checked case (large Pelican) is completely emptied, and the small locked gun container (with the declaration card TAPED to it set on the counter). The agent then asks me for the key for the gun box, it is opened, the firearm verified as to being unloaded, ammo box opened (even though it is a clear, see-through MTM that separates cartridges), and contents put back, and gun case locked. From that point, the individual personal items are completely and throughly vetted. I then am permitted to re-pack everything under close supervision, and install my two keyed brass padlocks. I do carry spare padlocks with me in the cabin. Off the case goes, and I track it with an independent GPS device placed inside.