Veteran and 5150 Holds after 5 years

[miked0013]

Hello my fellow gun toting Americans. I'm a 100% Disabled Veteran and was placed on a 5150 hold just about 5 years ago in a month or so. It was an unjust 5150 hold due to a medication issue and an unknown, at the time, medical disorder. The DOJ took my AR 15 I bought from AAFES and tried to tell me it was an assault rifle because I didn't register it as an assault rifle. Then they told me they were going to melt it. No MODS to it. Bought as is. This state freaking kills me on gun laws and I know we all feel the same way. But that was a gut punch since the AR was what I carried all the time while deployed in Iraq and Afghan on multiple combat tours. It was like my baby. I didn't have the over $10K to fight the state in attorney's fees to fight them to get my rights returned. I haven't had any issues since and no criminal record. It was one isolated incident and I ended up with medical diagnosis supporting my reason for the 5150. Does anyone know the process to have my rights returned to me? Is it automatic after the 5 years? Will I still need an attorney to petition my rights? I'd appreciate any help.

[RickD427]

Hello my fellow gun toting Americans. I'm a 100% Disabled Veteran and was placed on a 5150 hold just about 5 years ago in a month or so. It was an unjust 5150 hold due to a medication issue and an unknown, at the time, medical disorder. The DOJ took my AR 15 I bought from AAFES and tried to tell me it was an assault rifle because I didn't register it as an assault rifle. Then they told me they were going to melt it. No MODS to it. Bought as is. This state freaking kills me on gun laws and I know we all feel the same way. But that was a gut punch since the AR was what I carried all the time while deployed in Iraq and Afghan on multiple combat tours. It was like my baby. I didn't have the over $10K to fight the state in attorney's fees to fight them to get my rights returned. I haven't had any issues since and no criminal record. It was one isolated incident and I ended up with medical diagnosis supporting my reason for the 5150. Does anyone know the process to have my rights returned to me? Is it automatic after the 5 years? Will I still need an attorney to petition my rights? I'd appreciate any help.

Mr. Miked,

You've got a bunch of issues going on in your posting:

1) As to the WIC 5150 Hold - A person having been admitted under a 5150 hold, under the "Danger to Self" or "Danger to Others" clauses of WIC 5150 incurs a five year firearms prohibition. A person admitted under the "Gravely Disabled" clause does not get a prohibition. Which clause were you detained under, and what was the date?

2) The law does entitle you to have a court hearing to determine if you should be relieved of the five year period. Please see WIC 8103(f)(5) through 8103(f)(8) for the process. Your belief that the hold was unjust doesn't change anything.

3) As to the AR 15 being an "Assault Weapon" - That's gonna be determined by the Make/Model (PC 30510) or by the configuration (PC 30515). What was the Make/Model, and did it have any of the "evil features" listed in PC 30515? It's irrelevant that there were no modifications, a lot of "out of the box" AR-15's have features contained in PC 30515. Did you purchase the AR-15 from an AFEES Exchange in California?

4) As to the AR-15 being destroyed by DOJ. The DOJ cannot destroy firearms simply because they want to. They need a source of legal authority. If the AR-15 was an illegal "Assault Weapon", the DOJ can pretty easily destroy it under any of the three following statutes:

a) Penal Code section 18000 if there was a criminal conviction of an offense involving the firearm

b) Penal Code section 30800 as a "Nuisance."

c) Penal Code section 34000 if the weapon is left with the LE agency for 180 days.

5) There is no action required by you to regain your firearms rights after the five year period has expired.

[miked0013]

1. Thank you for the reply. I have no idea what I was held under. I wouldn't have been a danger to anyone else that's for sure. What do you mean by "Gravely Disabled" clause does not get a prohibition? Does that mean I shouldn't have been under a 5 year hold in the first place. This took place in September 2019.

2. The law entitles me to a court hearing. This is great information.

3. If evil features are a rail guard and bipod, those were the only additional mods I made to it. No crazy things like making the trigger assembly full auto, a bump stock, or anything like that. Now it didn't have that stupid *** bullet thing on the magazine release that California requires and my but stock was collapsable. But that was how I purchased it from AAFES. I had recently retired from the Army and purchased my AR and wasn't familiar with these stupid *** rules in CA. That's where they said I was in violation of the assault rifle rule because I didn't register it. It was all BS. I caught them in their own red tape of bull crap. That's all it was.

4. Well they hoodwinked me then. My situation did not apply to a or b and c didn't really apply because they classified my AR as an "assault weapon" due to what I mentioned above. I didn't register it as an assault weapon when I purchased it from AAFES. No one told me I had to. I never got a letter from DOJ after I purchased it and registered it with the DOJ notifying me to register it as an assault weapon. Like I said, the collapsable butt stock and stupid *** bullet button on the mag release is what they used to classify my legally purchased from AAFES AR. They can still be purchased like this which is what pisses me off. I was able to get my .45 transferred to my wife, but not my AR. So, they melted it.

5. How will I know when my rights are restored? Should I try to buy ammo? HA! So Stupid. It sounds like after five years I should be able to purchase guns and have my .45 transferred back to name?

I appreciate the time you took for this information. It's very helpful.

[RickD427]

1. Thank you for the reply. I have no idea what I was held under. I wouldn't have been a danger to anyone else that's for sure. What do you mean by "Gravely Disabled" clause does not get a prohibition? Does that mean I shouldn't have been under a 5 year hold in the first place. This took place in September 2019.

Welfare and Institutions Code (WIC) section 5150 defines three conditions that can provide cause for a detention when the condition is the result of a mental health disorder - Danger to Self, Danger to Others, Grave Disability. WIC 8103(f) provides a five year firearms disability for folks having been admitted under the "Danger to Self" or "Danger to Others" provisions of WIC 5150. The "Grave Disability" provision is not included.

2. The law entitles me to a court hearing. This is great information.

Remember that you only get one opportunity for a hearing every five years.

3. If evil features are a rail guard and bipod, those were the only additional mods I made to it. No crazy things like making the trigger assembly full auto, a bump stock, or anything like that. Now it didn't have that stupid *** bullet thing on the magazine release that California requires and my but stock was collapsable. But that was how I purchased it from AAFES. I had recently retired from the Army and purchased my AR and wasn't familiar with these stupid *** rules in CA. That's where they said I was in violation of the assault rifle rule because I didn't register it. It was all BS. I caught them in their own red tape of bull crap. That's all it was.

If it didn't have the "Bullet Thing" on the magazine release, then it's an illegal Assault Weapon. It don't matter how the AAFES Exchange delivered it to you (Still waiting to learn what state the AAFES Exchange was located in).

4. Well they hoodwinked me then. My situation did not apply to a or b and c didn't really apply because they classified my AR as an "assault weapon" due to what I mentioned above. I didn't register it as an assault weapon when I purchased it from AAFES. No one told me I had to. I never got a letter from DOJ after I purchased it and registered it with the DOJ notifying me to register it as an assault weapon. Like I said, the collapsable butt stock and stupid *** bullet button on the mag release is what they used to classify my legally purchased from AAFES AR. They can still be purchased like this which is what pisses me off. I was able to get my .45 transferred to my wife, but not my AR. So, they melted it.

If it didn't have the "Bullet Thing", then (b) applies.

5. How will I know when my rights are restored? Should I try to buy ammo? HA! So Stupid. It sounds like after five years I should be able to purchase guns and have my .45 transferred back to name?

Get a calendar, once it shows that September 2024 has passed, you're good to go. Standby for DOJ to barf at any DROS that you may submit for a purchase. Their record keeping is awful and they'll probably make you jump through hoops to convince them that September 2024 has passed. That's where the calendar may also come in handy.

I

appreciate the time you took for this information. It's very helpful.

You're most welcome.

[miked0013]

I apologize for taking so long to respond. I purchased the AR at Beale AFB in California. I know it may sound like a sad excuse of, "I should have known to replace the bullet button and collapsible butt stock." However, I did not know. I recently retired from the Army and I did not pay that much attention to the CA gun laws. I grew up in Ohio and assumed that if I purchased a weapon from an authorized dealer, the weapon was legally sold to me as is. It never occurred to me that a dealer, AAFES, could sell "assault weapons" in California. How can a business sell an illegally manufactured firearm in a state that doesn't allow them? How can they sell me a weapon, or anyone for that matter, and expect a consumer to modify the AR to conform to CA standards? I shouldn't be the one in the wrong. AAFES sold me the "assault weapon." It's not like I purchased it private party at a gun show. Had I done that, we wouldn't be having this conversation and I would accept the fact I was a dumbass. Don't dealers have a responsibility in this state to sell legal firearms to consumers so they, namely me, don't get threatened by the DOJ with an assault weapon charge?

[miked0013]

Oh. What's a DROS just in case I need to submit one?

[Preston-CLB]

Oh. What's a DROS just in case I need to submit one?

The DROS is Dealer's Record of Sale. It is the form you submit at the shop when you buy a gun. (Note: this is the short answer, I'm sure others will chime in with more detail)

You will also need Firearm Safety Certificate (FSC) to purchase a gun. There is a written test that costs $25 and is typically administered by the FFL. The test is easy, and you must score 80% to pass. There are study guides available online.
-P