Converting High Cap Mag in CA. Is it legal?

[deadshot]

Forgive me for being ignorant and I am sure this topic has been brought up before.
I know in hunting that you can plug a magazine tube that holds more than 3 rounds so it can hold 3 rounds and hunt legally. Does this apply in California for converting a high cap mag to hold only 10 rounds? If so where is the penal code stating you can or cannot? Not that I do not believe fellow cal gunners but I personally cannot bank on opinion if it is a grey area.

My dealer said that it can be permanently altered to hold 10 rounds if the magazine goes on a Evil rifle. I was wondering about the M1 Carbine I own because I have several 15 round mags. The M1 Carbine does not have any Evil features so he said I can even use 30 round mags on it and it is perfectly legal.
It is not the magazine its self that is illegal it is what type of firearm it is attached to is what it would make it illegal. It is like owning a collapsible stock. The stock itself is not illegal until it it attached to the rifle.

New info and thoughts

My dealer said that it can be permanently altered to hold 10 rounds if the magazine goes on a Evil rifle. I was wondering about the M1 Carbine I own because I have several 15 round mags. The M1 Carbine does not have any Evil features so he said I can even use 30 round mags on it and it is perfectly legal.
It is not the magazine its self that is illegal it is what type of firearm it is attached to is what it would make it illegal. It is like owning a collapsible stock. The stock itself is not illegal until it it attached to the rifle.

Penal Code 16740
As used in this part, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(a) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(b) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(c) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

This part of the law is typical of the BS that is made up by the libs that write this garbage. It only explains the definition of a large cap magazine but it does not define that it is a "detachable magazine" .
This part of the penal code defines permanently attached magazines which by the libs standards is meant to be deceiving.

[Mesa Tactical]

Hmm, since there is basically no legal way for you to import, manufacture or otherwise acquire a high capacity magazine in California, procuring one and then blocking it doesn't make it any more legal.

Blocking a high capacity magazine you owned in California prior to 2000 doesn't change it's legal status either, UNLESS it was permanently fixed at 10 round or less. Then you would be able to legally transfer it to another Californian.

But since 10-round magazines are abundant in a variety of calibers, this doesn't make much sense either.

[ClarenceBoddicker]

Yes, you can legally convert a high cap to permanently hold 10 or less rounds. You will have to use your own judgment as to what permanently means, as the CA DOJ will not define what that is within the statue. A factory magazine is almost always better than an aftermarket one. Yes, you can bring in a high cap magazine parts kit & convert it into a 10 round or less mag.

[emcon5]

Hmm, since there is basically no legal way for you to import, manufacture or otherwise acquire a high capacity magazine in California, procuring one and then blocking it doesn't make it any more legal.

Sure there is. He is asking, if you have a rebuild kit and assemble it with something in the body to block the capacity the same way you do it with a bird hunting plug in a shotgun, would it be legal.

The answer is no. The mod has to be permanent, and as has been stated, DOJ refuses to define what that means

You can build a 10 round magazine from a pile of high-cap parts, which is perfectly legal to purchase/import/whatever, provided it is permanent.

[vincewarde]

In the case of some rifles, 10 round mags are simply not available. The only legal way to obtain a magazine is to use a rebuild kit or buy out of state and then permanently modify it to hold less than 11 rounds.

[MaHoTex]

I thought I had read that the word "Permanent" was removed from the requirement. Perhaps somone in the know can chime in.

[LoadedM333]

This is interesting, I have disassembled factory hi cap mags when I moved to Kalifornia. I was thinking the same thing but didn't if it's legal or not. How do you define permanent?

[Quiet]

I thought I had read that the word "Permanent" was removed from the requirement. Perhaps somone in the know can chime in.

Permanently altered is still required. [PC 16740(a)]


Penal Code 16740
As used in this part, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(a) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(b) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(c) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

[mes227]

Hmm, since there is basically no legal way for you to import, manufacture or otherwise acquire a high capacity magazine in California, procuring one and then blocking it doesn't make it any more legal.

Yes, there are plenty of legal ways to "otherwise acquire" high cap mags in Calif. One would be to have owned it pre-ban. Another would be to find it (say, inside an old box of grandpa's stuff in the attic) or inherit from a family member (I'm unclear on how the law applies to inheritances).

More importantly (or perhaps more practically speaking) you can buy them very cheap just across the border. My cousin, who lives in Danville, recently bought a 10-rnd mag for his S&W. Cost him $40 plus tax. I live in Reno and I bought a 16 rnd mag for exactly the same gun for $20, at the Crossroads show and thus no tax. For that $23 savings I'd gladly just put a screw into mine to make it Calif legal. For the pistols I shoot a lot, I tend to own 4 or 5 mags and I own 8 pistols, so the savings really starts to rack up.

I also saw at the last gun show boxes upon boxes off 30-round / 5.56mm AR mags for under $10 (one box was $5 each but was sold out by the time I discovered it). I've not bought a Calif-compliant mag for my AR, but I'm guessing they are a lot more than $5.

As to the legality of doing this, I've read the law, other forums, and spoke to the Sheriff's substation in Truckee. All of that leads me to conclude that it is completely legal. What constitutes a "permanent" modification is unclear, but given the definition of a 'bullet button' I'd think a simple screw, which requires a tool to remove, would be a very defendable conversion. Two screws or one plus a drop of glue might be more convincing. A screw and a block of wood and you're home free. I was thinking of putting a screw up from the bottom of my S&W mag (to limit travel on the follower) so that I can take it to Calif but then remove the screw when I'm back home.

[MaHoTex]

Permanently altered is still required. [PC 16740(a)]


Penal Code 16740
As used in this part, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(a) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(b) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(c) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

Thanks for the clarity here. Perhaps they removed the specifics of what was defined as permanent. Or, maybe my old man brain is giving out on me. It sucks getting old.

[FatalKitty]

the only thing that makes my PMAG 30s "permanently" modified to 10 rounds is that the block actually replaces the floorplate. so to remove the block means I have no floorplate and the mag is no longer functional or complete.

I don't believe in epoxy or rivets

[FourLoko]

the only thing that makes my PMAG 30s "permanently" modified to 10 rounds is that the block actually replaces the floorplate. so to remove the block means I have no floorplate and the mag is no longer functional or complete.

I don't believe in epoxy or rivets

Came here looking for this answer as I'm on the brink (items in cart) of ordering pre-made, 10-round-limited mags from a Calguns vendor.

I REALLY don't want epoxy on anything (they give you the choice). I already own a couple 10 round mags that have the floor plates pinned shut.

Perhaps I can stash an "Emergency Epoxy Kit" should any mag police show up at the range for a crackdown

[Librarian]

Thanks for the clarity here. Perhaps they removed the specifics of what was defined as permanent. Or, maybe my old man brain is giving out on me. It sucks getting old.

There was some attempted rule-making some time back that discussed what might be 'permanent', but it never got as far as being a regulation, so there simply is no guidance on what may be acceptable.

[Sgt Raven]

the only thing that makes my PMAG 30s "permanently" modified to 10 rounds is that the block actually replaces the floorplate. so to remove the block means I have no floorplate and the mag is no longer functional or complete.

I don't believe in epoxy or rivets

The ones I have, have a inner block/floorplate retainer and a outer floorplate. They will still function with the inner block/retainer piece removed. I'd glue the block to the spring so you can't remove one without the other. Even if they had to hold the outer floorplate on I don't trust the courts to rule in my favor.

[97F1504RAD]

The ones I have, have a inner block/floorplate retainer and a outer floorplate. They will still function with the inner block/retainer piece removed. I'd glue the block to the spring so you can't remove one without the other. Even if they had to hold the outer floorplate on I don't trust the courts to rule in my favor.

That is what I did. I epoxied the spring to the block so that it is permanently attached to the spring therefore removal of the floorplate also removes the spring and without a spring it will not function at all.