Gay Pride, Gun Pride

[drifter2be]

First of all, it's not a "lifestyle." I know you think it's a choice, but it's not. You didn't choose to be straight either (unless you have a secret you want to confess here tonight). And if it's a lifestyle, then it's a pretty diverse one.

Second, this is not about you having to march in a parade. It's about you not refusing other people the right to marry.

Just like you find it inacceptable that other people infringe on your 2A rights.

This right here. The people that oppose one groups right to freedom and living as they want are just as bad as the anti-gunners and bradys.

Good article.

[vincewarde]

+1. Pathetic. And they're truly baffled when someone expresses any type of desire to infringe upon their own rights.

Yep, as an evangelical minister, gun guy and someone who has had gay friends most of my life I guess I have a unique viewpoint. It's sad that some in my religious community focus upon compelling people to conform to their morality - which (the attempt to compel behavior) is in total conflict with Christian theology. (If we are saved by being good enough, I am in deep trouble.) It's also sad that some - definitely a minority - in the gay community want to force people to violate their religious convictions. We should be able to get along. We should never forget that Hitler threw evangelicals and gays into the same camps.

A few years ago a lesbian couple very close to us was getting married. They asked me to do the ceremony, and I had to decline. They asked me if I would be there and I said, "Of course, you are my friends".

There is hope in our community. Most of us know gay people and many have gay family members. The church I attend made a deliberate decision not to get involved in anti-gay rights politics. We lost a few members, but it was the right thing to do, both as Americans and Christians. It's not my job to compel anyone to do anything - I leave that to my boss It is my job to love in both word and deed - and that's a big enough job. As for rights, IMHO we all should stand up for everyone's rights.

As for parallels, the need for wisdom in the political arena is definitely one. I'm willing to bet that Prop 8 would have failed but for one teacher taking her first grade class to a gay wedding without parental permission. Sometimes a dumb move by someone on your side can make for very bad "optics". Personally, I think this was the case with open carry too - and it had the same result.

Of course another parallel is that the real battle is in the courts.

[dls]

I think it will go ok, as long as there's no penis hats or backless chaps on the dudes at the booth. More power to you/us.

[fd15k]

Some things just come wholesale: guns, republicans and Christians. I don't expect Scalia to rule any time soon in favor of gay marriage.

[doug-y-doug]

vincewarde: I'm in complete agreement. Even with your decision not to marry the lesbian couple. Your moral decision in accordance with your personal faith was perfectly valid and respectable. Neither party's rights were violated

goodlookin1: Have a look at the amendment of the Constitution that directly precedes the second one. The very first part, the Establishment Clause, says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." While I agree that a Judeo-Christian philosophy was and still is engrained in western culture, our Founding Fathers intent seems pretty clear.

[CHS]

goodlookin1: Have a look at the amendment of the Constitution that directly precedes the second one. The very first part, the Establishment Clause, says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." While I agree that a Judeo-Christian philosophy was and still is engrained in western culture, our Founding Fathers intent seems pretty clear.

While most often straight-up ignored, check the 9th, too..

[a1c]

Some things just come wholesale: guns, republicans and Christians.

That's a very simplistic view. It's too bad history nor reality just don't match it.

I don't expect Scalia to rule any time soon in favor of gay marriage.

It's alright, that's why there are 9 Justices, not one.

[wildhawker]

I can promise you that the Pink Pistols did come up [in a positive context] at SHOT, more than once. Here's a hat tip to Mitch Barrie, owner and president of Mesa Tactical, for being a longtime civil rights advocate.

-Brandon

[goodlookin1]

Comparing a consensual relationship between two loving adults to rape or pedophilia shows a severe lack of logic and suggests that one is so incredibly biased that they are willing to spin whatever lies they want to get to the twisted conclusion they set out for.

As for tradition, that's bs in the extreme. This nation has had traditions of denying people rights and freedom based on skin color also. Tradition is not something to strive for when the tradition is based in hatred and bigotry. This country was founded by and large by people who may have believed in judeo-christian values themselves but the nation itself was not founded on their religious beliefs. It was founded on beliefs that all men were created equal, and that all are deserving of freedom and liberty.

Whether anyone here likes it or not freedom comes with a social cost. The cost of having to tolerate things you may not like. Marriage rights are similar to gun rights in that way. Soon enough, those who are intolerant of homosexuality are going to have to tolerate it anyway. Those who disagree with our right to bear arms are going to have to tolerate it anyway. Just like those who hate blacks have to tolerate them being free, and those who disagree with interracial marriage have to tolerate them as well.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

Let me be clear, since it appears my last post was deleted: I in no way attempted to equate homosexuality with any of those things.....I absolutely do not believe that! I was trying, and failed miserably, to show that everything still comes down to a choice....we are not forced to act on anything and everything we feel. It was in reply to a1c.

Second, I resent and reject the notion that the judeo-Christian principals = bigotry and hatred. That is something the world wants you to believe.

Lastly, your right about freedom....there is good and bad, things which benefit us and things that we dont agree with. And you're probably right that I will someday have to come to terms with what is coming in regards to the redefining the meaning of marriage. But in regards to tradition, it's not just our nation that's held the traditional definition....it's been this way for a loooong time throughout the world. And I don't think we should look to tradition in every case....not at all because we have to learn from our mistakes, and we certainly weren't perfect in the past. But I don't believe this case is one of those that we should see as a mistake (marriage being between a man and woman only). On that we will probably have to agree to disagree.

[doug-y-doug]

While most often straight-up ignored, check the 9th, too..

Good call. I'll add the 14th to the list.

[fd15k]

That's a very simplistic view. It's too bad history nor reality just don't match it.

It matches alright in certain places. California is just not one of them

It's alright, that's why there are 9 Justices, not one.

I'm sure you heard the theory why Due Process was chosen instead of P&I

[CHS]

I can promise you that the Pink Pistols did come up [in a positive context] at SHOT, more than once. Here's a hat tip to Mitch Barrie, owner and president of Mesa Tactical, for being a longtime civil rights advocate.

-Brandon

Mitch is awesome. I just gave his company some more money this weekend

[GettoPhilosopher]

Hrmm... I don't know. It's fuzzy...

Do you have a picture or something?

With HoffmanG's signature on the stock. ;D

[Dhena81]

Gay marriage is not a right 2A is.

I don't care if someone is gay or wants to get married I'm a true conservative I don't think the government should tell any lawful American citizen what they can and can't do as long as its not hurting other people.

[fd15k]

Gay marriage is not a right 2A is.

Marriage is a right. There are some SCOTUS decisions about it.