WARNING: UPDATE:: Proposition Withdrawn!!!

[AAShooter]

Can CGF draft a reasonable response to Front Sight? Propose solutions rather than just pointing out problems. Put bias and animosity aside.

This!

[choprzrul]

Disclaimer: I am a Front Sight Diamond Lifetime Member.

Dr. Piazza has always stated that his motivation is the furtherance of the 2A. On the surface, that would seem to be the case here.

However, as most of us will agree, under the hood is where we run into problems with trusting the doctor.

If his intentions are legit, I would see no problem with his allowing oversight and consultation on this project with certain non-profit entities from CA. This would certainly lend a lot of authenticity to his motives and help allay the fears that most of us are experiencing.

I personally think that "An Act To Bring California Into Compliance With US Supreme Court Civil Rights Rulings" might get traction on election day. The current version? Not so much. The doctor is probably well intentioned with some personal alterior motives; that is ok. He just needs some clever individuals from CA to nudge him in the right direction. He is putting financial resources into this project, so let's figure out a way to leverage that to our mutual benefit.

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[guns4life]

He is putting financial resources into this project, so let's figure out a way to leverage that to our mutual benefit.

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Exactly, instead of beating the "panic" drum somebody should be working on utilizing this resource...

[wildhawker]

Can CGF draft a reasonable response to Front Sight? Propose solutions rather than just pointing out problems. Put bias and animosity aside.

The proposal's many flaws have been discussed ad nauseam in the links I posted above. I'll try and do a line-by-line later today if I have time. Right now I'm finishing up the new and updated LTC guides, etc. for 2012.

-Brandon

[guns4life]

The proposal's many flaws have been discussed ad nauseam in the links I posted above. I'll try and do a line-by-line later today if I have time. Right now I'm finishing up the new and updated LTC guides, etc. for 2012.

-Brandon

And you think Piazza is just sitting around waiting to read some threads? I'm fairly certain his "to-do" list is a little bigger than that...



On a side note, thank you for updating the LTC guides...I appreciate it.

[wildhawker]

If his intentions are legit, I would see no problem with his allowing oversight and consultation on this project with certain non-profit entities from CA. This would certainly lend a lot of authenticity to his motives and help allay the fears that most of us are experiencing.

It's too late to collaborate. The proposal's language is set; this is not a spot bill.

It's now just A Really Bad Idea (TM).

-Brandon

[Bert Gamble]

Guys, I know that I am no one here, and what I say won't mean a thing; BUT, we need to have this discussion in a respectful manner. The worst thing we can do is start fighting about who is trying to do what.

I am a FS member and I know the founder is out to make a buck, but he is also advancing gun ownership and training for people who might not do it otherwise.

CGF does great things and they devote a lot of time to helping us. I was talking to wildhawker at 1 AM this morning. He was posting about this event as late as 6:45. This obviously means enough to him to miss precious hours sleeping to deal with it. This is more than most of us do.

I don't know enough to decide which side is right in this debate, but I respect each of their efforts and accomplishments enough to not talk bad about either one.

[locosway]

And you think Piazza is just sitting around waiting to read some threads? I'm fairly certain his "to-do" list is a little bigger than that...



On a side note, thank you for updating the LTC guides...I appreciate it.

Well, I've emailed him the link. I'm sure his staff will disregard it without showing him, however I can at least say that I tried to reach out and help the flow of communication.

[wildhawker]

And you think Piazza is just sitting around waiting to read some threads? I'm fairly certain his "to-do" list is a little bigger than that...

So is mine, but I take the time because I care enough to do it. No, I don't expect anything from FS. This thread is about informing others and indicating possible issues with the scheme so that people can make their own decisions.

-Brandon

[OleCuss]

Personally, I'm happy to assume that the Frontsight attempt to put this on the ballot is based on the purest of pro-civil rights motives. No need to cast aspersions on them.

That doesn't mean that the attempt is not misguided.

As wildhawker has stated, he/CGF have looked carefully at the proposed initiative and have found that it will not be helpful - and will be harmful. The logic used in analyzing it is good and this means the initiative is a bad idea.

It's sort of like all those people taking Vitamin E supplements to prevent heart attacks. They mean well and all, the only problem is that taking Vitamin E supplements turns out to increase the risk of heart attacks. You don't have to have bad motives to be wrong.

[Purple K]

And then there's the issue between Dr. Piazza and the NRA. They don't play well together either. Is this a pattern developing... Or just coincidence? Looks like a pattern to me

[HowardW56]

That sounds like quite a marketing project....

[a1c]

Consider the source and which side of lawsuits they usually are.

[guns4life]

Well, I've emailed him the link. I'm sure his staff will disregard it without showing him, however I can at least say that I tried to reach out and help the flow of communication.

Chances are Piazza has a million things to do from the moment he wakes up to the moment he leaves the office(probably 10 hours later) if he's your typical President(CEO, etc). The only way to garner the attention of these folks is to make a legitimate effort, that includes a certified letter, some form of direct contact from somebody with some pull, etc...something to stand out from the typical humdrum.


If somebody went to my dad with an "email link" they would probably get their *** chewed something fierce...the president doesn't have time for that kind of crap.

[vladbutsky]

The Frontsight marketing schemes are at best questionable. I have no illusions about them. But opposing a change in a right direction just because it is not ideal requires a SOLID plan to make the change even better in a REASONABLE amount of time. At this point I trust CalGuns much more than Frontsight but can someone here give me an idea what are we looking at as a timeline on when legal actions will start producing LTC results in counties like mine (Santa Clara)? I'm a member of Fronsight because they provide a good training. I'm planning to be there this April and most likely they will ask me to sign the petition there. At this point I do not have anything else against it but the fact that it is imperfect and likely wouldn't pass anyway. This is not a strong enough reason for me not to sign it.
Did I miss something?