Legality- Fixing a Colt Rogers Super Stoc by restraining locking lever

[AlexDD]

I usually run featureless builds. This forces me to pin the stock by driving a pin through the receiver extension.

I just watched a video on the Rogers Super Stoc that is coming with Colt rifles. If you see the picture below:





Can't get the video to embed so here it is below...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKklTECMPx8

There is a locking lever adjacent to the release lever.

If I were to Zip Tie that over the stock that would prevent the release lever from engaging thereby making it fixed.

Again, I am trying to prevent drilling into the RE tube.

1. Is a Zip Tie enough permanence for a fixed stock?

One could also fix by drilling a screw and nut through the stock to constrain the lever.

One could also use wire instead of the zip tie.

2. Is there any legal definition to the opposite of a telescoping stock as defined in the law? Or court cases?

This would allow one to remove their stock their lower receiver as long as the upper is detached from the lower.

A police officer would have to cut the wire or zip tie to make it "telescope" just like they would have to cut a lock to gain entry to a locked gun case. Different end result but both require altering the object by some method of destructive action.

A police officer, non-destructively, could remove the screws from your grip wrap around your pistol grip just as easily as remove the wire or zip tie. Same could said bullet buttons, pinned folding stocks like the SCAR, etc...

[bm-bill]

What if you just took the locking lever off and used a washer in its place and then tightened up the bolt with a nyloc nut on it until the stock is snug. It would then not release with the lever and would require a tool to adjust it.

[Scott Connors]

[QUOTE=AlexDD;7770517]I usually run featureless builds. This forces me to pin the stock by driving a pin through the receiver extension.

I just watched a video on the Rogers Super Stoc that is coming with Colt rifles. If you see the picture below:





Can't get the video to embed so here it is below...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKklTECMPx8

[snippage]

Here you go:

[AlexDD]

What if you just took the locking lever off and used a washer in its place and then tightened up the bolt with a nyloc nut on it until the stock is snug. It would then not release with the lever and would require a tool to adjust it.

Thank you. That is another idea. Had to look up nyloc nut

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyloc_nut

Still, I prefer that some sort of destructive measure be used to alter the configuration but not damage the stock.

[AlexDD]

Here you go:

Thank you for the youtube post lesson. I was pasting the entire URL and not the last digits of the code. I'll use for future reference.

[RP1911]

Looks like there is a hole on the bottom of the stock and it seems to be lined up where the cam lock and lever release overlap. Run a threaded pin to the overlap area through the hole. If you can machine the pin, you can integrate a QD or ?

ETA, that could be the hole for the pin that is used to engage the buffer tube. That roll pin may be there to keep the pin from falling out.

ETA 2, if you can block the slot where the cam moves, then it should block the release lever from releasing the cam.

[dantodd]

I don't believe a zip tie passes the "smell test" for permanence. We don't have on point case law AFAIK so we have to go based on common sense and the realization that in many CA counties the DA will be looking for reasons to get gun convictions as opposed to looking for ways to save his team time and money.

[AlexDD]

I don't believe a zip tie passes the "smell test" for permanence. We don't have on point case law AFAIK so we have to go based on common sense and the realization that in many CA counties the DA will be looking for reasons to get gun convictions as opposed to looking for ways to save his team time and money.

I am not disagreeing with the later part of your statement with regards to DA's...

But why does it need to be permanent? I apologize if this sounds bad given my question regarding permanence which you gave me a direct answer. I should have rephrased how I asked the original question.

iIRC Many members here have folding stocks that are pinned where all you have to do is use a tool to remove the pin and it is back to biz in a free state.

Grip wraps are permanent either.

Speaking of zip ties, good enough for PD restraints.

[bwiese]

I am not disagreeing with the later part of your statement with regards to DA's...

But why does it need to be permanent?


iIRC Many members here have folding stocks that are pinned where all you have to do is use a tool to remove the pin and it is back to biz in a free state.

Grip wraps are permanent either.

Speaking of zip ties, good enough for PD restraints

It's the smell test, dude. Zip ties just ain't gonna be seen as 'proper'.

They likely would be defendable but that means you go down a road of grief.

Figure what happens if a traffic cop sees this. Do you have bail money?

There's also a helluva smell test difference between a hamfisted zip-tie kluge and a properly fitting Solar Tactical grip wrap: the latter looks purpose-built. I think that's a good guideline.


Either...
- install a bullet button + 10rd mag;
- install another "not a valuable Colt" stock kit that you can drill/pin
- put on a regular A1/A2 stock & tube.

Even though there's no requirement/definition of permanence, CA courts and CA judges do not run like computer programs that branch on pure truth or falsity - there's 'fuzzy logic' here and you wanna be well on the bright side of the line.

Please don't put CGF in a position where we have to jump in just to stop some bad crap happening when the situation is avoidable in the first place.

The fact zip ties are used in other applications has no real relevance here either and I am surprised you brought it up.

[dantodd]

Please don't put CGF in a position where we have to jump in just to stop some bad crap happening when the situation is avoidable in the first place.

DING!

Spending money on legal battles is more fun when you choose the battle.

[AlexDD]

Why is it different regarding permanence between a folding vs a telescoping stock?

Food for thought...

http://www.riflegear.com/p-861-folding-stock-block-fn-scar.aspx

SCAR and SIG 556 mechanism



Folding Stock locking mechanism.

"This replacement for the standard folding stock release button will lock the stock into a non-folding configuration. *By locking the stock, the rifle will meet the California overall length (OAL) requirement of 30" without the need of an extended length muzzle device.

Installation is simple and is completely reversible without any modification to the firearm, requiring only simple hand tools"

[AlexDD]

Even though there's no requirement/definition of permanence, CA courts and CA judges do not run like computer programs that branch on pure truth or falsity - there's 'fuzzy logic' here and you wanna be well on the bright side of the line.

Please don't put CGF in a position where we have to jump in just to stop some bad crap happening when the situation is avoidable in the first place.

Understood.

[bwiese]

AlexDD,

So that device to me seems far far beter and expressly purpose-built rather than some half-*** zip-tie idiocy.

It'll likely survive inspection (and 'not get lost') in a police evidence locker

[AlexDD]

AlexDD,

So that device to me seems far far beter and expressly purpose-built rather than some half-*** zip-tie idiocy.

It'll likely survive inspection (and 'not get lost') in a police evidence locker

As I posted just before, you have convinced me otherwise. Better to lock through some sort of screw mechanism or pin system.

I am sure you would not agree with a metal tie system either:



It is sad, but realistic, when we have to think that the Police would lose a part of evidence etc...