Can large cap magazines be grandfathered?

[Ed_Hazard]

Ok, I read the thread (thx by the way) but here is the situation I have not seen addressed....

You have a hi cap mag. You get "busted". Your defense is you had it pre ban.. You have no receipts etc. Has anyone heard of this happening and what were the results?? I haven't seen any mags that are date stamped (yet) Does LE send the mag to the manufacurer for verification of its' date of manufacture?

I read all the warnings and possible dire consequences of having a hi cap, but never have I read any (verified)l problems or results from any reported cases>

Anybody?? (I'm not looking for speculatlion here)

thx

Not yet, do you want to roll the dice and volunteer to be the test case?



As far as the whole " Gave them to my kids prior to the ban." OK, sure, awesome foresight on your part.

[Quiet]

3. Even if there is evidence that your possession of the mag occurred subsequent to the pre-ban date, the Statute of Limitations precludes prosecution for this class of offense after a three year period. But as a general rule, pleading the SOL requires an affirmative defense and the evidence burden shifts to you.

Also note, that if you acquired the large capacity magazines illegally and the 3 year statue of limitations expired, the magazines can still be confiscated & destroyed as a "public nuisance".

So you won't be convicted, but you won't get to keep them.


Penal Code 32390
Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any large-capacity magazine is a nuisance and is subject to Section 18010.

Penal Code 18010
(a) The Attorney General, district attorney, or city attorney may bring an action to enjoin the manufacture of, importation of, keeping for sale of, offering or exposing for sale, giving, lending, or possession of, any item that constitutes a nuisance under any of the following provisions:
(20) Section 32390, relating to a large-capacity magazine.
(b) These weapons shall be subject to confiscation and summary destruction whenever found within the state.
(c) These weapons shall be destroyed in the same manner described in Section 18005, except that upon the certification of a judge or of the district attorney that the ends of justice will be served thereby, the weapon shall be preserved until the necessity for its use ceases.

[bruss01]

I think the best advice the OP is likely to get would be to have the giver of those magazines disassemble them and give them to the OP as fully legal "rebuild kits". OP should put them in a box and store them in that condition until the 10 round magazine ban is defeated, or until he moves out of the state. My guess is it will be only a few years before the mag ban is history.

In the meantime he can buy some perfectly legal 10 round mags to have fun with at the range.

All of the above is perfectly legal and (with a bit of patience) accomplishes what the giver of those magazines intends, for the OP to have legal hi-cap magazines to go with the gun being given.

As another person pointed out, if the OP illegally assembled the rebuild kits, the burden would be on the state to prove that he did not own them before the ban. It would also be the burden of the state to prove that he had not illegally assembled those rebuild kits more than 3 years prior to his being charged with the crime of "assembling" hi-cap mags, because of the statute of limitations. If OP owned the rebuild kits legally for 3 years in a non-assembled state, and then 3 years after receiving them one day he assembles them... I think it would be very hard to prove, aside from his own testimony which cannot be compelled, exactly WHEN the assembly of that rebuild kit took place. Not saying it's legal, not saying it's right, and I'm certainly not advising the OP to do anything like that... but it would be almost impossible to get a conviction under those circumstances.

edit: Maybe burden of SOL defense rests on the accused. In any event, it would be a very difficult matter to prosecute. My hunch is the DA would have to be supremely motivated to go after this, such as you really did something egregious (like had an affair with his wife) and that's all they've got on you, or he really wants to make an example. It's difficult to imagine this happening just because you had a range trip and someone next to you raised a flag and got you in hot water. Most times keeping your mouth shut is 98% of your defense in any legal matter.

[Librarian]

There are several avenues of defense for your scenario:

1. There is no evidence that you imported or manufactured the magazine which the statute addresses; the statute does not address mere possession as an offense.

2. There is no evidence (unless you voluntarily provide it) that your possession of the mag occurred after the pre-ban date. You don't have to provide an affirmative defense. The burden is on the prosecution to prove this and in the absence of your admission, such a prosecution is unlikely to prevail. The prosecution might have a better case if the magazine was never even manufactured until after the pre-ban date. Consequently, if the mag wasn't even manufactured until 2010, the mere possession defense would be the better approach.

3. Even if there is evidence that your possession of the mag occurred subsequent to the pre-ban date, the Statute of Limitations precludes prosecution for this class of offense after a three year period. But as a general rule, pleading the SOL requires an affirmative defense and the evidence burden shifts to you.


So, it's a convoluted situation with the devil being in the details. Consequently, with respect to your scenario, the crucial thing to do is to avoid any explanation that could come back to bite you in the butt.

That said, I know there are forum members who would opt to get into a long dissertation with an investigating LEO to prove their perfectly valid point, but IMO, the only sure way to effectively protect yourself legally, is to STFU and contact your attorney.

This.

Also, since it is legal to rebuild damaged magazines, possessed in CA before 2000, with parts which may have been manufactured in 2011 and dated, anything marked on the magazine parts is not presumptive evidence of anything at all.

[CSACANNONEER]

As far as the whole " Gave them to my kids prior to the ban." OK, sure, awesome foresight on your part.

No real foresight involved. Most of us were aware that the ban was coming and did what we could do to protect our rights to own them. Some people were smart enough to give some to their children. Hell, I was in the market for a pair or Sigma mags and couldn't find any around. At the end of Dec. '99 my dad found some at a show at the Cow Palace, he called me, asked how many I wanted and bought them for me. So, even parents of adult children could and did give +10 round mags to their kids the week before the ban took place.

[boxbro]

Can you give you magazines to your sperm in 1998?

Probably not but maybe you can give them to a twinkle in your eye.

[Ed_Hazard]

No real foresight involved. Most of us were aware that the ban was coming and did what we could do to protect our rights to own them. Some people were smart enough to give some to their children. Hell, I was in the market for a pair or Sigma mags and couldn't find any around. At the end of Dec. '99 my dad found some at a show at the Cow Palace, he called me, asked how many I wanted and bought them for me. So, even parents of adult children could and did give +10 round mags to their kids the week before the ban took place.

I remember the hectic shows before the ban, g17 mags going for $90 each. Thermolds for AR's $35 and up. HK mags of any type were an arm and a leg.

Dont recall lots of folks shopping for their kids future gun purchases. Not saying it did not happen, but it could have.

[tackdriver]

Ok, then the way I read is that: Unless I missed something, getting caught at the Calif border with the HCM's (still in their unwrapped packages) and having possession of an HCM that wasnt manufactured prior to 1998 are apparently the only issues that would get you into trouble??? Unless of course some dumbo answers the "when was the mag purchased" question with "Uhhh....last week??"
Anyone know for sure if the polycarb mags were started to be made before 1998?

[Librarian]

Are we still doing this?

Possession is not a chargeable offense - no PC for it.

See the link in my .sig

closed