militarization of cifvilian police

[Beagle]

I don't want that the police have, I want the police to have what I have. I don't need an APC,or a spy drone...they don't need them either.

Last time I checked you weren't responding to the Hollywood Bank robbery or any other 911 calls. An APC would have been hopeful then.

As far as spy drone, what LE agencies have these? Or are you talking about something called a helicopter.

[Beagle]

First off read the article then you'll realize it's an anti-gun article.

[Drivedabizness]

Your generalization is false. You are lumping all police against all civilians. I bet the average calgunner is better armed than the average police.

It should bother you that the military is better armed than the civilians.

WRONG! The "generalization" is SPOT ON and easily, verifiably so.

The average CalGunner does NOT have an assault weapon in their vehicle, as well as a tactical shotgun and a handgun - all with high cap magazines.

But it does bother that both are so better armed than us civilians.

[problemchild]

No, because the military isn't roaming the streets of our country.

and kicking in doors WITHOUT search warrants killing innocent dogs for the hell of it.

[wolfstar]

First off I don't think there is anything morally lacking in today's cops. They are simply reacting to economic and political intensives offered to them.
The primary issue with police forces is their sources of funding. Most police forces spend most of their time trying to add numbers arrest numbers to the right categories to secure state and federal grants. This shifts cops from viewing every decent member of the community as their employer to viewing the community as prey to increase their funding.

Once you toss that switch from guardians of public order to hunters on trail this fundamentally puts the police at odds with the community. There is no way of fixing this without changing how we fund the police. Get rid of tickets (jail time instead), get rid of grants, get rid of drug seizes laws, and get rid of police cruisers. Cops should be well known and respected in the community and people should be able to recognize and talk to them as normal people. If you don't have enough cops to cover an area get some volunteers and put a cop over them to keep their noses clean.

Baring these changes we will honestly have a full blown police state in a few years. There are many decent older cops but the majority of young cops I've come into contact with seem more corrupt than the crooks they arrest thanks to the funding system. As the older cops retire the view that we are all prey to be bagged and tagged will become set in concrete.

[vantec08]

First off I don't think there is anything morally lacking in today's cops. They are simply reacting to economic and political intensives offered to them.
The primary issue with police forces is their sources of funding. Most police forces spend most of their time trying to add numbers arrest numbers to the right categories to secure state and federal grants. This shifts cops from viewing every decent member of the community as their employer to viewing the community as prey to increase their funding.

Once you toss that switch from guardians of public order to hunters on trail this fundamentally puts the police at odds with the community. There is no way of fixing this without changing how we fund the police. Get rid of tickets (jail time instead), get rid of grants, get rid of drug seizes laws, and get rid of police cruisers. Cops should be well known and respected in the community and people should be able to recognize and talk to them as normal people. If you don't have enough cops to cover an area get some volunteers and put a cop over them to keep their noses clean.

Baring these changes we will honestly have a full blown police state in a few years. There are many decent older cops but the majority of young cops I've come into contact with seem more corrupt than the crooks they arrest thanks to the funding system. As the older cops retire the view that we are all prey to be bagged and tagged will become set in concrete.

Civilian police serve political interests . . ..FIRST.

[Mulay El Raisuli]

"Standings Armies" and "Select militia" are "dangerous to liberty".

Our law enforcement agencies have morphed into the "select militias" that our founding fathers warned us about.

Blame the "War on Drugs" and the "War on Terror" for getting us here.

The "Posse Commitatis Act" is now effectively dead now that the US Military can operate on US soil and arrest any of us as "terrorists" and hold us without trial or a call to a lawyer.

We now will have "standing armies" here on our streets.

Yup.

Bet the ACLU types are really freaking out now, especially since the "One" who was brining "Hope and Change" signed the law.

Actually, I think they're clapping their little hands in glee at the thought.

Of course on a bright side, their arms may become "common arms" and if they are "common arms", they could be "constitutionally protected arms".

Fingers crossed.

The so called "Liberal judges" in the 9th circuit who actually tend to be good on the rest of the bill of rights may start waking up that if they don't protect the 2nd, the rest of the bill of rights is toast.

Nicki

Unless they're also clapping their little hands in glee.

Great post.

Jerkoff Chief states that he equates society with the criminal element.

Yes, he did.


The Raisuli

[pointedstick]

The police are already estranged from gun owners in this state. Think about who the average gun owner faces more danger from, the police, or criminals. Especially in certain urban areas like SF, I'd argue that the police are a much bigger danger to the health and freedom of the average gun owner than criminals ever can; at least with criminals, you can protect yourself if they oppress you! The police? Not so much. You can blame the legislature for passing ridiculous laws that the police need to enforced, but in the end, it's not Dianne Feinstein's glock, taser, and handcuffs you'll become acquainted with.

[email]

This is California. Gun = Bad (politically)

This is the root of the problem. Alaska, Vermont, and Arizona have it right.

We don't have the right here (as a state).

This is the wedge.

[Steve1968LS2]

Hey mistakes are made. I'll admit that any day of the week. I havent made any regarding that, but I do know they are made. As far as the law being applied, I see everyone here get upset when there is talk of firearms being taken away. Cops and civilians. I'll give mine up as soon as they say to. Until then, like everyone else, I'll hang on to them until the time to give them up.

Just like you, I will fight, complain, and do whatever else I can to hang on to everything I have. Just like you will probably cheer for those who come to take our property away. For the record, I was never a cheerleader when any firearm bans went into effect.

Just like who?

And congrats, that has to be about the most pathetic post I've ever seen on Calguns!

I wonder if you would roll over and give up your other rights as easily.. cheering in the process.. I imagine so.

[Falconis]

Not much of a choice when the cops are serving a warrant on you.

[gh0stface]

I do believe the police have the right to protect themselves, but they have to abide by the same firearm laws as other citizens. I believe most police departments focus on "the war drugs and terror". Unfortunately, this doesn't make communities safer; in fact, it may actually do the opposite. We are at the point where search warrants are rubber stamped; the LE and judicial system are not held accountable for their actions. The fact is there are a lot botched raids that harm innocent citizens, and in most cases, the people responsible for these botched raids are not held accountable. I much rather have the police investigating stolen property, sex crimes, murders, etc than padding their arrest log with drug arrest.

[SPROCKET]

When law enforcement officers are referring to themselves as "operators" and "warriors" with a straight face, we are in deep deep trouble. These concepts have no place in policing a civilian population. It fosters a mindset that job of police is to go out and "kick ***" not to maintain the peace. I also thinks it's harmful in that it makes members of every podunk town's tactical unit think they're Delta Force. One only needs to look at the Guerena or Mixon shootings to see how incompetence and aggression get people killed.

[glbtrottr]

When law enforcement officers are referring to themselves as "operators" and "warriors" with a straight face, we are in deep deep trouble. These concepts have no place in policing a civilian population.

Amen.

"An investigation revealed that Jose had not fired his weapon. "

"Ambulance crews were then notified they were no longer needed, one hour and fourteen minutes after Guerena's wife's call to 911."

"As of November 7, 2011, none of these searches has yet resulted in any arrest(s)."

"A computer search revealed Guerena had no history of criminal convictions."

"In the Affidavit used to justify this search warrant, Pima Detective Alex Tisch "claimed" Guerena had "five felony arrests involving drugs" but no convictions"

"Six months after the raids and the killing, none of the targets of the raids have been arrested. It was revealed that none of the suspects in the raids had been observed handling, or even near, narcotic substances, in six months of constant police surveillance."

"On August 12, it was announced that the family of Jose Guerena filed an intention to sue the Pima County, Sheriff Dupnik, and all the officers who shot Guerena or were part of the raid, offering to settle for $20 million. The lawsuit cites that the officers acted with neligence when they failed to announce themselves and put Guerena's wife and son in danger, and willingly deprived Guerena of medical attention after he was shot, leading up to his death, and violated his civil rights. The lawyer for the family says the lawsuit is meant to hold those accountable for Guerena's death and send a message to officers who have unlawfully killed citizens. The lawyer for the officers, however, says that the lawsuit is only to cause more hysteria and the amount is excessive since the officers had already been cleared of wrongdoing.

As the parties involved in killing Guerena did not settle, the family proceeded to file a lawsuit on November 1. The suit named Pima County, Marana, Sahuarita, Oro Valley,[25] and all SWAT operators involved in the killing. The suit covers claims of negligence in the procurement of the search warrant, in the shooting, and in the failure to provide medical attention."

If you kill the "subject" or "suspect, common belief is that they simply won't sue you - and even if they do, they're suing the city as you have qualified immunity under the charter of your badge.

No us versus them? In what planet?

[TheFlyingAfrican]

Of course on a bright side, their arms may become "common arms" and if they are "common arms", they could be "constitutionally protected arms".

hell yeah! anyone in for a group by of Strykers or M1A2s?