Richard vs Harris Implications

[goodlookin1]

Hey guys,

I was reading over Richard vs Harris, which is the challenge to the AW ban in CA, among other things. I had a question though: If PC 12276.1 were declared unconstitutionally vague and is ruled in our favor, what happens to our ability to purchase/manufacture standard capacity magazines (mags over 10 rounds)? It appears that since this aspect is not being challenged, it would still remain illegal to acquire high cap mags. Is there any challenge to this? I mean, it would be awesome if we got rid of the features part, and the ban on use of high cap mags in unregistered, featured rifles. But for those of us who dont own any HCM's and cannot legally acquire them, we'd still be out of luck. The "permanently altered" bit of the HCM ban seems ripe for a challenged on being unconstitutionally vague, although that argument doesnt attack the heart of the ban.....

[Connor P Price]

The magazine capacity limit is an entirely separate issue and will not be touched by this case. The ban on certain semi-automatic firearms is being challenged as well as 12031(e) IIRC, but magazines aren't at issue in the case. For a case to be successful its generally important to keep them very narrow and only touch on very specific issues, going after everything all at once is dangerous.

Plans to go after the magazine restrictions have been mentioned but aren't being pursued as actively right now because they are lower on the priority list.

ETA: Also remember that this case is in response to an arrest for a violation of 12276.1 which arose out of a search persuant to 12031(e) each of which are laws that we presume are unconstitutional. So only those laws directly involved in the arrest are at issue here, not the unrelated magazine restriction.

[notme92069]

The magazine capacity limit is an entirely separate issue and will not be touched by this case. The ban on certain semi-automatic firearms is being challenged as well as 12031(e) IIRC, but magazines aren't at issue in the case. For a case to be successful its generally important to keep them very narrow and only touch on very specific issues, going after everything all at once is dangerous.

Plans to go after the magazine restrictions have been mentioned but aren't being pursued as actively right now because they are lower on the priority list.

ETA: Also remember that this case is in response to an arrest for a violation of 12276.1 which arose out of a search persuant to 12031(e) each of which are laws that we presume are unconstitutional. So only those laws directly involved in the arrest are at issue here, not the unrelated magazine restriction.

Actually I believe he was arrested for possession of high capacity mags. But that was dropped since possession isn't illegal and that is not in the scope of this case for reasons you mentioned.

[Connor P Price]

Actually I believe he was arrested for possession of high capacity mags. But that was dropped since possession isn't illegal and that is not in the scope of this case for reasons you mentioned.

Your right, there was mention of that in the case as well. Its not actually a crime though so it wasn't pursued and wouldn't make sense to challenge. Had he been charged with something that is actually a crime, like importation, sale, lending, etc. then it may have been different.

[CHS]

Remember people, the magazine ban was passed at the same time as the AW ban, but was a SEPARATE law.

The AWB and LCMB are somewhat intertwined due to the strange language involved fixed-magazine firearms, but are in reality two completely separate issues and pieces of legislation.

[yellowfin]

It's going to be REALLY interesting applying the results of this case against New York which has separate local AWB's for Rochester, Albany, and NYC that are over and above the state AWB.

[Connor P Price]

It's going to be REALLY interesting applying the results of this case against New York which has separate local AWB's for Rochester, Albany, and NYC that are over and above the state AWB.

Is there no state preemption in NY? Or do the cities just ignore it if there is?

[yellowfin]

It's complicated. There's state preemption on handguns, SORT OF, with the exception of NYC, but no statewide preemption on rifles. NYC pretty much runs itself as a worse-than-hell city state of its own which has its own list of state court cases saying it can do what it wants and all its gun laws are OK. Rochester's AWB was challenged pre-Heller and lost, my guess being the lawyers and plaintiffs were less than optimal and of course the NY state courts are on their knees like Monica Lewinski for the anti gun political complex.

[dantodd]

the magazine capacity limit may be difficult to attack directly in the immediate future. This is why Gene has a plan that would circumvent, rather than challenge, the law. This case and a couple others have temporarily delayed the full display of "Gene's Package." But I'm sure that Gene is as anxious to show all of us his package as we are to see it.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

This case and a couple others have temporarily delayed the full display of "Gene's Package." But I'm sure that Gene is as anxious to show all of us his package as we are to see it.

You just couldn't resist that one, could you.

-Mb

[hoffmang]

You just couldn't resist that one, could you.

-Mb

It's an old, old joke...

The case in front of the magazine case is just about to be filed. Nordyke en-banc really underscores that the magazine capacity case's time has come! Certainly in Q1 next year.

-Gene

[Dreaded Claymore]

The case in front of the magazine case is just about to be filed. Nordyke en-banc really underscores that the magazine capacity case's time has come! Certainly in Q1 next year.

Whoa. In legal time, that's lightning-fast. This will be very exciting.

[Connor P Price]

Whoa. In legal time, that's lightning-fast. This will be very exciting.

That's something we all need a good strong reminder of every once in a while. In legal time, we're actually moving rather quickly on the whole. Its frustrating waiting years for results, but when you recognize that we're moving in the judiciary you'll see that we're moving at breakneck speeds.

[HowardW56]

It's an old, old joke...

The case in front of the magazine case is just about to be filed. Nordyke en-banc really underscores that the magazine capacity case's time has come! Certainly in Q1 next year.

-Gene

Gene, you're such a tease.....

[SA227driver]

Two weeks...