Is everyone exempted from 12031 during SHTF?

[stix213]

I was thinking about PC 12031's exemption for when waiting for the police to arrive and you feel you are in danger. What about a situation like the Rodney King riots when the police simply were gone? If there is no police presence at all, and there is rioting and/or people being injured or killed, you certainly can believe that "the person or property of himself or herself or of another is in immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is necessary for the preservation of that person or property."

Now, if the police never respond, and are not going to for days most likely, doesn't the "brief interval" mentioned in the PC actually mean until the rioting stops and the police have regained complete control? Also, I don't believe you personally need to notify them, since they would be notified by CNN by then, correct?

Thoughts?

(j) (1) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the
carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would
otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that the
person or property of himself or herself or of another is in
immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is
necessary for the preservation of that person or property. As used in
this subdivision, "immediate" means the brief interval before and
after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has
been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its
assistance.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html

I apologize for using the old penal code numbering, as I don't know the new ones yet.

[GW]

This may be one of those judged by 12 vs carried by 6 things.
Do what is necessary to preserve the life and safety of you and your loved ones and let the law sort it out later. I mean are you going to let your mom/wife/daughter/sister/gf get raped because you aren't sure your firearm is compliant?

[GettoPhilosopher]

For whatever it's worth, I assume in a riot most of us would take off the BBs, assemble the rebuild kits, and load up.

IANAL.

[Cali-Shooter]

If there is that much madness going on around you (LA riots 1992), then what happens in your house is no one's business but your own(it should be that way regardless, but the Nanny state says otherwise). At the furthest end, you'll have to boil it down to the risk of being judged by 12 or carried by 6, or, who gives a flying f', no one is going to find out about anything in regards to firearms violations.

This is all hypothetical talk btw, not advocating breaking the law. It's total BS though.

Sent from Black Mesa Research Facility, Level 3 Dormitories, Room 309.

[a1c]

Remember than none of the shop owners who fired on their crowds during those riots ever got charged with anything.

[Cali-Shooter]

Another thing, if there is "SHTF" ala LA riots style, and for whatever reason you have to go outside wielding firearms, wear sunglasses, cover your face, and try to remain anonymous, there are cameras rolling everywhere, esp. from the sky. Do not be identifiable. Even better if you are in a group, that way you are no longer an individual.

[scrat]

in the 1992 riots we loaded up and kept to ourselves. When SHTF you dont cause a scene. you shut up and load up. then stay at home and keep to yourselves. Only go out when necessary and watch over your family.

[Full Clip]

Being able to keep a low profile is an essential SHTF skill...

[chiselchst]

I was thinking about PC 12031's exemption for when waiting for the police to arrive and you feel you are in danger.

In addition to the OP's hypothetical scenario (if I may inquire without thread jacking?), to what degree of a lesser situation would the exception apply?

I.e., if there were several local home invasions or robberies (or the perceived threat of) in ones local neighborhood during a period of instability or civil unrest, or during any period when the LE community was strapped and unable to respond within a reasonable amount of time, when/would this exception apply?

Maybe a "just prior to a" SHTF situation...if that makes any sense.

(FWIW, if my personal safety is in jeopardy, I will do what I have to to protect myself. Just looking for the legal definition)

[chris]

Remember than none of the shop owners who fired on their crowds during those riots ever got charged with anything.

and rightfully so they should not have. but in 92 this state was very different from where it is today. we have less freedom and more regulation and control over our day to day lives.

[Cali-Shooter]

^ ^ ^ chris has a major point there. The political and government climate of today is drastically different, we can't rely on how things were almost 20 years ago to apply all the same way today. Be on your guard and CYA is what I'm saying, as best as you can.

[stix213]

This may be one of those judged by 12 vs carried by 6 things.
Do what is necessary to preserve the life and safety of you and your loved ones and let the law sort it out later. I mean are you going to let your mom/wife/daughter/sister/gf get raped because you aren't sure your firearm is compliant?

I was trying to ask a legal question rather than a practical one.

[Dutch3]

From 12031:
"As used in
this subdivision, "immediate" means the brief interval before and
after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has
been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its
assistance."

Keep in mind that LE response time varies depending on where you live. It can be a few minutes or a few hours. In some areas, it is measured in days rather than minutes. The term "brief interval" used in the PC is intentionally misleading IMHO.

[Ubermcoupe]

but in 92 this state was very different from where it is today.

I had to check myself to realize that was pre FAWB.

almost 20 years ago

[Steyr_223]

Fast forward to 1:34..Go Korean American shop owners!!

What would you do?