ITAR: Can I ship an Eotech to Canada?

[GettoPhilosopher]

I'll be honest, I'm trying to wade through the US State Department website on ITAR and I'm having trouble understanding it.

Simple question: got an offer on Calguns for my Eotech 517 and Gen 1 3x Magnifier (FTS). Polite guy, but is also a new account/no posts, which makes me wonder. He wants to know if I'll ship to Canada.

Is that legal?

[HowardW56]

I wouldn't try it....

[GettoPhilosopher]

I wouldn't try it....

That's definitely how I'm leaning unless I get a big "Oh, totally legal! Don't worry about it!" from TRP.

[rimfire78]

Ask one of these guys

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/

[Caladain]

Both are covered under ITAR and may not be exported without proper authorization by the U.S. Department of State.

Sorry. ITAR is bad juju..don't play with it.

[GettoPhilosopher]

Both are covered under ITAR and may not be exported without proper authorization by the U.S. Department of State.

Sorry. ITAR is bad juju..don't play with it.

Thanks! That's what I needed to know.

Sent from my Galaxy S II. Please overlook any typos.

[Zman11]

I would say pass. The way you might go about accomplishing this, if you did want to move forward, would be to first contact Eotech directly and confirm whether it's ITAR controlled or considered dual-use (i.e. Commerce controlled under BIS).

From at least one of the websites I've seen, it may be under Commerce jurisdiction (ECCN: 0A987). This is a category which covers "Optical sighting devices for firearms (including shotguns controlled by 0A984); and parts..." (reference the Export Administration Regulations or EAR for more info). Unfortunately, even a DOC jurisdiction here does not help you, as this particular ECCN is controlled for 'Firearms Convention' purposes, a reason for control which requires a license for Canada (reference this ECCN and this chart). If the reason for control has an 'X' in the box for the country, it requires a license for export).

From here, the requirements unfortunately only get more complicated. Category XII(c) of the ITAR covers:

*(c) Infrared focal plane array detectors specifically designed, modified or configured for military use; image intensification and other night sighting equipment or systems specifically designed, modified, or configured for military use; second generation and above military image intensification tubes (defined below) specifically designed, developed, modified or configured for military use, and infrared, visible and ultraviolet devices specifically designed, developed, modified, or configured for military application. Military second and third generation image intensification tubes and military infrared focal plane arrays identified in this subparagraph are licensed by the Department of Commerce (ECCN 6A02A and 6A03A) when a part of a commercial system (i.e. those systems originally designed for commercial use). This does not include any military system comprised of non-military specification components. Replacement tubes or focal plane arrays identified in this paragraph being exported for commercial systems are subject to the controls of the ITAR" (linklink). If the name and address for the end-user does not appear on that list as a registered entity or the product is considered 'SME', you're out of luck (assuming you even made it to this point, which is unlikely).

As always, you would always want to check directly with the US government prior to exporting to ensure the information is accurate. I am in no way providing any export advice or counseling, only some hypotheticals.

[GNE]

Sorry for the threadjack, but a couple random questions popped into my head after reading the wikipedia entry for ITAR:

Can a US citizen bring a controlled item (e.g. an eotech optic) into another country (e.g. Canada) on their person without the intention of exporting it (e.g. returning with it)? Or is the act of walking across the border with the optic on their person considered exporting? - upon some further reading this seems like a pretty clear violation, although correct me if I'm wrong

Can a US citizen lend a controlled item to a foreign citizen within US borders, e.g. a Canadian citizen at a US shooting range being handed a rifle with an eotech mounted on it?

[rplusplus]

ITAR is so Leagalese... having to work with it at work at a US Defense Contractor... I would for this matter just say... DON'T. If it is in the US sell it in the US. If they want it outside the US, let a broker deal with it. I couldn't even send myself a laptop to Iraq from the US... I had to hand carry it and had to have 10 forms to do that.

[Zman11]

ITAR is so Leagalese... having to work with it at work at a US Defense Contractor... I would for this matter just say... DON'T. If it is in the US sell it in the US. If they want it outside the US, let a broker deal with it. I couldn't even send myself a laptop to Iraq from the US... I had to hand carry it and had to have 10 forms to do that.

The sad part is you'd be amazed at how many 'brokers' out there don't know what they're doing either.

[Zman11]

Sorry for the threadjack, but a couple random questions popped into my head after reading the wikipedia entry for ITAR:

Can a US citizen bring a controlled item (e.g. an eotech optic) into another country (e.g. Canada) on their person without the intention of exporting it (e.g. returning with it)? Or is the act of walking across the border with the optic on their person considered exporting? - upon some further reading this seems like a pretty clear violation, although correct me if I'm wrong

Can a US citizen lend a controlled item to a foreign citizen within US borders, e.g. a Canadian citizen at a US shooting range being handed a rifle with an eotech mounted on it?

You'd have to better define your interpretation of the term 'lend', however, note that an export may be deemed an export (hence the term within the EAR for 'deemed export') whether it occurs within US borders or not. For more info, check out this link.

[GNE]

(Although the ITAR does not use the EAR term "deemed export," it incorporates the same rule through its definition of an "export," which includes "[d]isclosing or transferring technical data to a foreign person, whether in the United States or abroad.")...A U.S. person must apply for an export license pursuant to the deemed export rule when two conditions are met: (1) the U.S. person intends to transfer controlled technology to a foreign national in the United States; and (2) transfer of the same technology to the foreign national's home country would require an export license. Thus, for example, when a mine operator conducts a PowerPoint presentation that is attended by a company employee who is a foreign national or is on a secondment or other assignment from a foreign affiliate, the U.S. company needs to consider whether a license is required under the EAR and its deemedt export rule.

That seems to suggest if a US citizen has a visitor from abroad, takes them to a shooting range, hands them a rifle with an ITAR controlled optic on it to shoot, and takes it back afterward, they would still be in violation of ITAR.

[johnny_22]

Even caught Ruger by surprise!

In their list of "Don't end up like them", the BIS shows Ruger getting fined for selling optics to a person in Canada. After reading that and other stories, I would't export anything, unless it was work related, and my ITAR/BIS expert got permission first.

[Funtimes]

That seems to suggest if a US citizen has a visitor from abroad, takes them to a shooting range, hands them a rifle with an ITAR controlled optic on it to shoot, and takes it back afterward, they would still be in violation of ITAR.

I wonder how this works for all the Japanese people going to shooting ranges here in Hawai'i lol.

[GNE]

Maybe giving them an optic to play with on US soil doesn't constitute "[d]isclosing or transferring technical data to a foreign person, whether in the United States or abroad" since it doesn't tell them anything about the technical data. Just don't show them the owner's manual?