Responsible Citizens of California Speak Out Against Passage Of AB 144

[Black Dragon]

The Responsible Citizens of California have just issued a press release to speak out against the passage of AB 144--the Open Carry ban bill of 2011.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-oakland/responsible-citizens-of-california-weigh-against-the-passage-of-ab-144

[Havoc70]

As much as I like you, this made me cringe:

Since the State Legislature and the Governor have chosen to attack the right to carry handguns, law-abiding citizens who wish to be able to protect themselves from violent criminals have no choice but to Open Carry long guns instead.

Continue reading on Examiner.com Responsible Citizens of California Weigh In Against The Passage Of AB 144 - Oakland Gun Rights | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...#ixzz1aN1syZ2C

You're really going to go there? Insanity abounds.

[bwiese]

Havoc70,

Absolutely right.

Very poor idea, BlackDragon. You'd have been far better off bringing up how this could possibly improve CCW stuff.

Unfortunately the UOCers are disconnected somewhat from the real gunrights movement and don't comprehend how this will really screw up some fixup laws where we have to work with other groups (LE) - and this prospectively just screws the pooch in that cooperation.

LE groups were the big opposer in AB144 and the UOCers picked a battle with them - and lost.

[CalBear]

You're really going to go there? Insanity abounds.

Here's a form letter for us to use:

Dear Governor Brown,

I strongly urge you to veto AB 145, a bill that will ban the open carrying of long guns....

Sincerely,
XXX

[GOEX FFF]

"Since the State Legislature and the Governor have chosen to attack the right to carry handguns, law-abiding citizens who wish to be able to protect themselves from violent criminals have no choice but to Open Carry long guns instead."

Now you guys want to open up long guns to be put on the chopping block...... Hasn't there already been enough damage done??

[xGearbox]

Now you guys want to open up long guns to be put on the chopping block...... Hasn't there already been enough damage done??

Not really. So you want to have the ability to UOC long guns but we shouldn't ever practice it because the instant somebody does it, this activity can get banned? Why do we even have this then? Either exercise it or just outright ban it since we shouldn't do it anyway. Then we can focus on getting shall-issue or something more useful to gun owners.

[831Shooter]

Not really. So you want to have the ability to UOC long guns but we shouldn't ever practice it because the instant somebody does it, this activity can get banned? Why do we even have this then? Either exercise it or just outright ban it since we shouldn't do it anyway. Then we can focus on getting shall-issue or something more useful to gun owners.

Fully Agreed!

First off, admittedly, I am new to calguns and I do not have the inside information that many involved with CGF do with regards to their strategy for our 2A rights, but I have never understood this attitude regarding UOC.

Second, I do not UOC, so I had no real "side" in this matter.

I just don't understand the attitude of 2A supporters shouting about NOT UOC handguns and don't UOC long guns. What good is a "right" (or really privilege in this state) if you are too fearful to do it. Just let them ban it, it's already "banned" in 99% of gun owners minds. They know they are legally allowed to UOC, but won't or don't because the know the hassle they will encounter with LE. It's pointless. "Hey, If I REALLY wanted to, I'm allowed to carry an UNLOADED gun openly in public"..

The whole thing is ridiculous. The gun grabbers in CA seem to have the law abiding gun owners right where they want them. A quick peruse through the threads will show that ASAP. There are still long posts about people questioning and scared about LEGALLY having a handgun in their vehicle "unloaded and in a locked container".

I don't claim to be right. Obviously, as I stated, there are people with much more knowledge in the "fight" the myself.

How did UOC hurt us?

IMHO, the LE, citizens and politicians who are anti gun for private citizens are NOT CHANGING their minds. Nothing we do is going to suddenly convince gun control nazis that they were wrong and now they will support our 2A rights.

Serious questions:

How does exercising a LEGAL right harm our cause?

How does NOT exercising a legal right help our cause?

To myself, it seems like there is no effect either way. The gun grabbers will still want to grab no matter what. Having a "right" that you realistically can not carry out is useless. Either we can ACTUALLY UOC handguns or long guns or we can't. If we can't then just get it over with and pass the law banning it already.

831S

[TheExpertish]

I'm not surprised this was signed. Sucks but this will be made a mute point when Shall Issue succeeds.

[OleCuss]

Reminds me of Patton. The idea is to not to die for your country but to make the other guy die for his.

And lets kill off this idea that you have to exercise your constitutional right. If that were the case the UOCers would be LOCers right now. It is clear that LOC is constitutionally protected but they don't do that.

If you want to win you set up a careful strategy with tactics which will further your strategy. You choose the terrain and the timing along with a favorable order of battle and then you execute.

UOCing long-guns is just walking into the opponent's kill zone. Not enough to get the right to UOC killed off - they need to make it so that we can't carry long guns either?

Is this "Responsible Citizens of California" an LCAV front group?

[tenpercentfirearms]

If you want to win you set up a careful strategy with tactics which will further your strategy. You choose the terrain and the timing along with a favorable order of battle and then you execute.

This has always been the issue. There is a time and place for everything. The guys who were UOCing on an individual basis when they felt they needed to didn't wake up the beast. It was the coffee shop commando.

Yes, ultimately it was the legislature and the governor that made all of this happen, but you live in California. Realize you are outnumbered and you will never win through the legislative process. Those are concrete facts here in this state.

[Caladain]

Gun owners have done more to hurt the movement than the anti's have. Please talk some sense into whatever organization you have a voice in *not* to open carry rifles.

[ubet]

So on 10/10/12, we will be crying, cussing how every EFFING time we put a rifle in the pickup to go hunt it has to be locked up in a case. I am all for expressing your rights, but this is just not a battle you are going to win in this state. Its like going into every movie theater you can and yelling fire, yes you have the freedom of speech, but their is time and place restrictions on it.

UOC, you guys got slapped down less than 7 hrs ago, and you are going to uoc "evil black kitten and baby killers"? EFFING DUMB!

[elsensei]

For those of you who actually believe you are men with rights, whether the state recognizes them or not, good on ya. The rest of you, what a bunch of gutless turds.

I'm really amazed.

Yes, I'm going to OC my shotgun. The black pistol-gripped 12 gauge semiautomatic, with the action open and buckshot and slugs in the carrier, ready to load. Probably get arrested by another badged thug that doesn't know the law, sue again and get paid.

And I'll figure out an exemption to 144 (there are 28, I'll know them and the thugs won't), legally carry a handgun, get arrested for again NOT breaking the law, sue again and have another payday.

Then when they ban long gun carry, I'll carry my sword, probably get arrested again, sue again, and get paid again.

And when you finally get your precious shall-issue government permission slips, I'll sign up for one too, conceal my handgun and walk around all day with a shirt saying "I'M CARRYING A BIG F-U-C-K-I-N-G HANDGUN" with an arrow pointing right to it. Then I'll get arrested for that, and make a case that I'm exercising my right to free speech. Let's see them weasel out of that. Again, I'll get paid.

The point is, I'm not going to cower and hope that sometime in the next 10 years kalifornia recognizes the right. I want to be able to carry a loaded chambered handgun open and everywhere and won't settle for anything less as long as I live here. I agreed to chair RCC with the understanding that we were not going to compromise, EVER. Compromise of gun rights is just half steps to hell, and what turned the NRA into the biggest gun control organization on the planet.

You don't have to like it. And just a warning, trying to talk me out of it is a waste of time. So save your breath.

[Caladain]

When did you renew your Brady membership?

For those of you who actually believe you are men with rights, whether the state recognizes them or not, good on ya. The rest of you, what a bunch of gutless turds.

I'm really amazed.

Yes, I'm going to OC my shotgun. The black pistol-gripped 12 gauge semiautomatic, with the action open and buckshot and slugs in the carrier, ready to load. Probably get arrested by another badged thug that doesn't know the law, sue again and get paid.

And I'll figure out an exemption to 144 (there are 28, I'll know them and the thugs won't), legally carry a handgun, get arrested for again NOT breaking the law, sue again and have another payday.

Then when they ban long gun carry, I'll carry my sword, probably get arrested again, sue again, and get paid again.

And when you finally get your precious shall-issue government permission slips, I'll sign up for one too, conceal my handgun and walk around all day with a shirt saying "I'M CARRYING A BIG F-U-C-K-I-N-G HANDGUN" with an arrow pointing right to it. Then I'll get arrested for that, and make a case that I'm exercising my right to free speech. Let's see them weasel out of that. Again, I'll get paid.

The point is, I'm not going to cower and hope that sometime in the next 10 years kalifornia recognizes the right. I want to be able to carry a loaded chambered handgun open and everywhere and won't settle for anything less as long as I live here. I agreed to chair RCC with the understanding that we were not going to compromise, EVER. Compromise of gun rights is just half steps to hell, and what turned the NRA into the biggest gun control organization on the planet.

You don't have to like it. And just a warning, trying to talk me out of it is a waste of time. So save your breath.

[elsensei]

The guys who were UOCing on an individual basis when they felt they needed to didn't wake up the beast. It was the coffee shop commando.

Yes, ultimately it was the legislature and the governor that made all of this happen, but you live in California. Realize you are outnumbered and you will never win through the legislative process.

gotta comment on this.

no, it was the individual guy who "woke up the beast". pull your head out. anyone who oc'd in this state was gonna cause a ruckus. ask me how i know.

and i agree, we'll never win in the legislative process and i've always thought lobbying and letter writing was a waste of time. the only thing that works is the judicial process. thugs only understand force.