President ACLU, Oct 5th, San Fran

[nicki]

See link.

http://action.aclu.org/site/MessageViewer?em_id=80402.0&dlv_id=82290

I can't make it since I work eves and cant' get time off on short notice. In any of you guys can make it, it would be a good way to try to do some outreach in a "positive manner'.

The ACLU is always going after the police. If they are happen to be targeting our opponents, it is smart for us to give them extra ammo.

The legal scholars have shifted over to our side and some state ACLU chapters have stepped up to support the 2nd amendment.

Nicki

[Pixs]

Thanks for the link.

[G60]

I'm hoping local chapters put pressure on ACLU national to change this soon:

http://www.aclu.org/racial-justice_prisoners-rights_drug-law-reform_immigrants-rights/second-amendment

"the ACLU has long taken the position that the Second Amendment protects a collective right rather than an individual right...The Supreme Court has now ruled otherwise...The ACLU disagrees with the Supreme Court's conclusion about the nature of the right protected by the Second Amendment..."

[curtisfong]

A+++

We need some ACLU outreach big time.

[tankarian]

I'm hoping local chapters put pressure on ACLU national to change this soon:

http://www.aclu.org/racial-justice_prisoners-rights_drug-law-reform_immigrants-rights/second-amendment

"the ACLU has long taken the position that the Second Amendment protects a collective right rather than an individual right...The Supreme Court has now ruled otherwise...The ACLU disagrees with the Supreme Court's conclusion about the nature of the right protected by the Second Amendment..."

Making friends with the Devil...yeah, that's always a good idea.
Next think you know somebody will propose sending a rose bouquet to Sarah Brady

[Maestro Pistolero]

ACLU supports 2A rights in NV, proving the existence of snowflakes in hell or at least, in the desert.

[Connor P Price]

I don't see any reason that the ACLU wouldn't end up on our side. The tide has been moving in our direction in their state chapters.

[tankarian]

I don't see any reason that the ACLU wouldn't end up on our side.

I'll give you a reason why: The ACLU Never Forgets Its Pro-Communist Roots

Bio of ACLU founder

"I am for socialism, disarmament, and ultimately, for abolishing the state itself as an instrument of violence and compulsion. I seek social ownership of property, the abolition of the properties class, and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal. It all sums up into one single purpose -- the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live. I don't regret being part of the communist tactic. I knew what I was doing. I was not an innocent liberal. I wanted what the communists wanted and I traveled the United Front road to get it."
--Roger Nash Baldwin, founder of the American Civil Liberties Union

A tiger's stripes never change.

[Connor P Price]

I'll give you a reason why: The ACLU Never Forgets Its Pro-Communist Roots

Bio of ACLU founder


A tiger's stripes never change.

Individuals with views as extreme as that certainly don't generally change a whole lot, but you seem to misunderstand my point. The ACLU is not an individual, its an organization, and organizations most certainly change in big ways because the people they are made up of change.

The ACLU is made up of many state chapters, some of which have already begun leaning in our direction, as that continues it will naturally lead to more pro gun involvement on a national level.

[tankarian]

Individuals with views as extreme as that certainly don't generally change a whole lot, but you seem to misunderstand my point. The ACLU is not an individual, its an organization, and organizations most certainly change in big ways because the people they are made up of change.

The ACLU is made up of many state chapters, some of which have already begun leaning in our direction, as that continues it will naturally lead to more pro gun involvement on a national level.

Wishful thinking. Disarmament is clearly stated in the ACLU credo as it was put on paper by its very own founding father.

[nicki]

Concern over ACLU roots.

Yes the ACLU has "communist roots".

That being said, the NRA in the past supported discriminatory CCW laws, restrictions on guns for minorities, supported the NFA of 1934.

The NRA changed over the years. There is no reason the ACLU can't change on gun rights.

The people who founded the ACLU are DEAD. There are many differences I have with the ACLU, but I will look for areas we can agree on.

If it wasn't for the ACLU, many of our other "rights" would be "gone".

The ACLU will not become a "Conservative organization", but they can move to being a "Left of center Libertarian" organization.

If the rest of the bill of rights is gone, it won't take long for our gun rights to be gone.

One thing the ACLU is very strong on is first amendment rights. If we can tie that the second amendment is critical for survival of the first, we could start swinging them over to our side.

State Senator Mark Leno (D San Francisco) is not our friend, yet he is heavily pushing "open government reforms". One thing he wants to do is make "public records" put online.

Imagine how much easier our CCW sunshine project would be if sheriff's had to put everything we need online.

Of course longterm we want CCW info to be private, but as long as it is "may issue", public records access is critical in our battles to win.

Many of the sheriffs we don't like are dirty on other areas of civil rights, in short, they are out of control.

[Milsurp Collector]

A tiger's stripes never change.

But a person's opinions can change.

In 1927, Baldwin had visited the Soviet Union and wrote a book, Liberty Under the Soviets. Originally, at the beginning of the ACLU, he had said, "Communism, of course, is the goal." Later, however, as more and more information came out about Stalin's regime in the Soviet Union, Baldwin became more and more disillusioned with Soviet-style communism and called it "A NEW SLAVERY" (capitalized in the original). He condemned "the inhuman communist police state tyranny". In the 1940s, Baldwin led the campaign to purge the ACLU of Communist Party members.

Ronald Reagan was once a liberal Democrat who denounced corporate profits rising faster than wages, and "Republican inflation".



If someone quoted only that speech you might think Ronald Reagan was a lifetime liberal who "never changed his stripes".

Using old outdated quotes to give a misleading picture of someone's beliefs is a propaganda technique worthy of socialists and Communists.

[1JimMarch]

The Arizona chapter of the ACLU (state level and local branches such as the Southern Arizona chapter) have gone 100% our way on the 2nd, revolting against the national org. Same as Nevada and I don't think those are the only two.

[curtisfong]

Ridiculous. The ACLU has already stepped up to bat in several states. Furthermore, it is an organization, not an individual.

Even more ridiculous is that this is some sort of a half-baked excuse to NOT try to influence the ACLU.

[Untamed1972]

I'm hoping local chapters put pressure on ACLU national to change this soon:

http://www.aclu.org/racial-justice_prisoners-rights_drug-law-reform_immigrants-rights/second-amendment

"the ACLU has long taken the position that the Second Amendment protects a collective right rather than an individual right...The Supreme Court has now ruled otherwise...The ACLU disagrees with the Supreme Court's conclusion about the nature of the right protected by the Second Amendment..."

Gotta love that. "We are here to fight your civil rights......except the ones we dont agree with."