Misdemeanor, Probation, and the RTKABA

[PixelBender]

Earlier this year (Jan 6th) as a new years resolution I wanted to start working out. Sometimes I work late and didn't get home until late that night. I put my backpack on (Heavy bag full of misc camping gear- "BOB") laced my boots, and went for a walk to the beach and back. I was stopped by police on bikes once for walking down the street and I asked why they wanted to see my ID and they didn't provide a reason, I asked if I was under arrest or being detained, they said no, so I walked away. Not knowing they where following me a block down not more than 200 yards down the road I came to a park, tapped the basket ball pole (return point) and started to turn around when I was accosted by officers and told to keep my hands where I could see them. They proceeded to demand my ID "How about that ID now" they stated I was being detained for entering a park after 10:30pm" I did not consent to a search of my person or belongings and when instructed to remove my backpack stated that again. One officer drew his firearm on me and demanded that I take the backpack off or he would force me. I stated I was not resisting, and that I did not consent to a search of my person or belongings. The other officer, was nicer than the other one, told his partner to "settle down" and approached me and said he would be removing my backpack. He unclipped the waist, and pulled the shoulders off while I held my hands where he and his partner could see them. They proceeded to keep me standing there for about 30-45 minutes its now approaching ~12:15am, when they moved me to the car which the other officer drove over from the beach station, where they searched me, made a quick search through my backpack, stuffed me in the back and took me down to the station. I was left unattended until 3:30am at which point they waved some paper in front of me saying the ticket would be a $100 fine, and I had to sign the ticket or wake up in a cell. I obviously signed the ticket as it is my duty to state that I would appear in court, however there was no mention of this "$100 fine". The ticket stated "MISDEMEANOR - NON TRAFFIC". I plead not guilty and paid my $35 bail ($236 after fees) and scheduled my court date. I'm not familiar with this kind of "misdemeanor" nor am I sure its a good thing to represent myself.

How does this affect my rights?

Can this result in probation?

If so, will that probation effect my firearm ownership in any way?

The ticket says it was issued at 1:30am which is insane because I had left my house around 11:15-11:30 and was on the phone 100yrds back leaving a VM to a friend who I was calling prior to them stopping me the first time. I live 1.25 miles away.

Has anyone ever dealt with this kind of charge?

Does it matter if I was traveling towards the only properly displayed sign with park hours? The park has coastal access, and the initial stop occurred prior to 12:30am when the beach is closed.

Its probably best to speak with a lawyer regarding this, which I have done, but I want to get your feedback, suggestions, experience.

I appreciate your time. Thank you in advanced.

[Liberty1776]

man thats BULLSH*T! Im sorry to hear you got hassled for no reason. Hope everything works out for you!

[PixelBender]

In all honesty, yes I did walk into the park, but the signs are not clearly posted, most are vandalized (stickers and graffiti), and there is no clear/defined border. On google maps if you follow my trajectory I was heading DIRECTLY towards the only clearly posted sign. I went down there durring the day with some friends and took pictures of the area. I need to pull those together and illustrate what happened. Regardless, I had no idea, and the street I was on just ends at Ocean front walk and in no more than 3 paces your in a park. Also the park has coastal access and the beach was my initial return point. Blocked by a .5 mile wide park (technically its wider than that but the area I was in has a .5 mile wide section of basketball courts, and open areas which for me is more comfortable. I like to see would be attackers coming). I decided against going to the beach because I noticed the handball courts which have been notorious for shady activity over the years.

This law was initially created to prevent vagrants from establishing logging in the park over night. Venice beach has an issue with homeless near the beach.

To top it off the police station is some 200ft from where I was stopped. If anything was going to happen I felt more secure near the police station than on some back alley walk way with no lighting.

[SwissFluCase]

Contempt of cop, eh? My friend got arrested for that kind of BS not too long ago. He worked with an attorney to basically tie the case up forever. After two and half years of motions, appeals, discovery, delays, etc., he finally wore the DA down and got the case tossed. He quickly learned how criminal procedure worked, and used every last technicality to his advantage.

Never give up.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

[jaandrade3rd]

Is there a law about entering a park after 10:30pm? Was there a barricade and clearly posted signs prohibiting entry after such time?

[stix213]

If the exact PC of your misdemeanor is on the list of prohibiting misdemeanors (I seriously doubt it) then it can result in a ban on firearms.

The list is on page 2:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/prohibcatmisd.pdf

Is there a law about entering a park after 10:30pm? Was there a barricade and clearly posted signs prohibiting entry after such time?

Sounds like a city ordinance.

edit: looks like this one:

http://venice311.org/venice-beach-park/lamc-63-44-venice-beach-park-regulations/

14. (Amended by Ord. No. 164,209, Eff. 1/8/89.)

(a) No person shall enter, remain, stay or loiter in any park between the hours of 10:30 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. of the following day. On any public park or recreational facility subject to this section, the supervising employee at such site may extend the 10:30 p.m. closing time for up to one and one-half hours to accommodate any departmentally approved event, except for Griffith Park, for which the supervising employee at such site may extend the 10:30 p.m. closing time for up to only one hour to accommodate any departmentally approved event. (Amended by Ord. No. 180,461, Eff. 2/8/09.)

(b) No person shall enter, remain, stay or loiter in any park which consists of an ocean area, beach, or pier between the hours of 12:00 midnight’ and 5:00 o’clock a.m. of the following day; except that no person shall remain, stay or loiter on Royal Palms Beach between the hours of 8:00 o’clock p.m. and 5:00 o’clock a.m. of the following day. On any park which consists of an ocean area, beach, or pier subject to this Section, the supervising employee at such site may extend the 12:00 midnight closing time, or in the case of Royal Palms Beach the 8:00 o’clock p.m. closing time, to accommodate special events such as grunion runs and other events approved by the Department of Recreation and Parks or the Los Angeles County Department of Beaches, as applicable.

(c) (Amended by Ord. No. 180,454, Eff. 2/8/09.) The closing and opening hours for each of the following parks or facilities shall be as follows:

Elysian Park – closed at 9:00 p.m. (except for two parking lots adjacent to it, which shall close at 10:30 p.m.), open at 5:00 a.m.

Bellevue Recreation Center – closed at 10:00 p.m., open at 5:00 a.m.

Cabrillo Beach pay Parking Lot (Port parking section) – closed at 10:30 p.m., open at 3:00 a.m.

Closed one hour after Sunset, open one hour before Sunrise:

Dearborn Park

Ernest E. Debs Regional Park (except to open no earlier than 5:30 a.m.)

Hansen Dam Recreation Center

Runyon Canyon Park

Telfair Park

Closed at Sunset, open at Sunrise:

Abbott Kenney Park

Bell Canyon Park

Carey Ranch Park

Chase Street Park

Deervale Park

Del Rey Lagoon

El Escorpian Canyon Park

Erwin Street Park

Hansen Dam Recreational Lake

Harold Henry Park

Jesse Owens Park

Kagel Canyon Park

Ken Malloy Harbor Regional Park (except the northern end of the park, as designated by appropriate signage, which shall close at 4:00 p.m. and open at 10:00 a.m.)

Knapp Ranch Park Annex

Liemert Plaza

Linnie Canal Park

Orcas Park

Orcutt Ranch

Pacific Palisades Park: (portions near Via De Las Olas and near Mount Holyoak, as designated by appropriate signage)

Porter Ranch Subparks: (Palisades Bridle Trails, Wilbur-Tampa, Eddleston, Limekiln Canyon, Porter Ridge, and Viking)

Richardson Family Park

Robert Burns Park

San Pascual Park

Sepulveda Basin Recreation Area Facilities: (Woodley Flight Field, Sepulveda Wildlife Reserve, the North Parking Lot of Balboa Park, Lake Balboa Park, Off-Leash Dog Exercise Area)

South Weddington Park

Stoney Point Park

Valley Plaza Park: (Laurel Grove and Whitsett Sections)

Villa Cabrini Park

Yucca Mini Park

[PixelBender]

Is there a law about entering a park after 10:30pm? Was there a barricade and clearly posted signs prohibiting entry after such time?

There is no barricade. IO was walking towards the properly displayed sign. The only other sign in under and awning almost parallel to the ground, had been vandalized, and was not on the same path. If you stepped over the line you can not see that sign. I have pictures and google maps of the entire area labeled.

I do know the coastal commission states that we have unfettered access to beaches and coastal regions. This park stretched some 1.1 miles. Hell of an obstacle to go around to make it to the sand. The beach closes at 12:30am according to the coastal commission.

I'm still trying to get at an underlying issue. If my defense is weak and I end up with a hefty fine (the best case scenario regardless of the fact that its a misdemeanor on my record at that point) wont affect my firearms, but if I'm given probation, I'm SOL... right?

Can I just PPT to a friend and have them PPT'd back to me when this is all over? Probation seems like extreme justice as there was no victim, there was no damage, only wasted time on both parties. They found nothing in my possession to be illegal, dangerous, or menacing. Just kicked me to the curb 2.1 miles from my house at 3:30am.

[PixelBender]

Can a misdemeanor of this type result in probation?

[billybob_jcv]

Look at the bright side - at least this wasn't you...

http://venice311.org/2011/04/08/naked-transient-hot-prowls-ocean-front-walk-home/

Naked Transient Hot Prowls Ocean Front Walk Home
April 8, 2011 By Venice 311
At 1:30 a.m. Friday morning LAPD was called to the 2900 block of Ocean Front Walk by a resident in their home reporting a hot prowl burglar. The individual was in the home screaming. When police arrived they found a naked black male transient, apparently under the influence of drugs or alcohol, in the home screaming and yelling. It is not known how the man gained entry. He was taken into custody at the scene. Witnesses said he was a regularly seen on the boardwalk.

[stix213]

Can a misdemeanor of this type result in probation?

Why couldn't it? My guess is if found guilty you'll just get a fine, but its not impossible you could get community service, probation, or even a short jail stint. If I were you I'd already have a lawyer by now.

[anthonyca]

How the F could some cops do this? Go get some criminals with my f'n money!!!

[billybob_jcv]

Does Hiibel come into play here?

http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2004/06/63926

http://articles.cnn.com/2004-06-24/justice/dorf.police.id_1_warrant-requirement-search-reasonable-suspicion?_s=PM:LAW

[anthonyca]

Does Hiibel come into play here?

http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2004/06/63926

http://articles.cnn.com/2004-06-24/j...cion?_s=PM:LAW

Unfortunately, since entering the park after a certain time is a misteamenor, as ridiculous as that is, he would have to identify himself as SCOTUS ruled if your detained you must identify yourself. I hope I am wrong because this police state crap upsets me more than almost anything. I have a chance of defending myself against a mugger or home invader, as long as they are not from the government.

When they stopped him on the street Hibel applied as they had no resonable suspision that he had or was about to commit a crime.

[billybob_jcv]

Right - and they let him walk away after he denied their request for ID - and I suspect you are right - the police are probably saying the second encounter was a "Terry" stop because of the park curfew. However, I'm still not sure about the search of his backpack - does the misdemeanor park violation allow them to search a closed bag on your person if you have not given them consent? Isn't some sort of probably cause still required for the search? I have no idea - I'm just curious.

Unfortunately, since entering the park after a certain time is a misteamenor, as ridiculous as that is, he would have to identify himself as SCOTUS ruled if your detained you must identify yourself. I hope I am wrong because this police state crap upsets me more than almost anything. I have a chance of defending myself against a mugger or home invader, as long as they are not from the government.

When they stopped him on the street Hibel applied as they had no resonable suspision that he had or was about to commit a crime.

[anthonyca]

Right - and they let him walk away after he denied their request for ID - and I suspect you are right - the police are probably saying the second encounter was a "Terry" stop because of the park curfew. However, I'm still not sure about the search of his backpack - does the misdemeanor park violation allow them to search a closed bag on your person if you have not given them consent? Isn't some sort of probably cause still required for the search? I have no idea - I'm just curious.

I would think since he was not put in a cell, they didn't need to inventory the backpack. This makes me angry.