If there was more training requirements/qualifications....

[Tacobandit]

Do you think we could get more sheriffs/COP's or maybe even change the laws to shall issue? I was thinking about this the other day that yea I know the law states 16 hours but come on 16-hours is a joke, if they upped it to 80+hours of training and have the classes put on by the agency issuing the LTC permits they can increase revenue for the city/county and make sure the people are properly trained, say you cant pass the qual, then you dont get a LTC. Think about this too, the police academy is nearly 1000 hours, yes some is laws/classroom but a good portion is on firearms/tactics and the laws regarding shooting/use of force. I know there has been bills attempting to change it to "Shall" issue in the past but they have never touched the training requirements. I really think that you could convince the Sheriffs/COP'S to change there minds about LTC with so many agencies facing budget crisis.

[G60]

80+ hours gtfo!

[Tacobandit]

80+ hours gtfo!

So you wouldnt do it to get a LTC?

[Shellshocker66]

So you're basically suggesting that only people who can take the time for an 80+ hour course or the financial means to attend one should have a LTC?

What about the people who have threats against their lives? Are they suppose to wait for the time for a 2 week course, plus LTC application times?

Yeah we need to make it harder for a right that technically should be ours for free per the 2A!

[Tacobandit]

So you basically suggesting that only people who can take the time for an 80+ hour course or the financial means to attend one should have a LTC?

What about the people who have threats against their lives? Are they suppose to wait for the time for a 2 week course, plus LTC application times?

Yeah we need to make it harder for a right that technically should be ours for free per the 2A!

Most people cant get one now with threats against there lives, LAPD refused to issue to a woman whose husband threatened to kill her and had put her in the hospital, instead he placed a patrol car outside her house, the guy still snuck in and killed her. You guys arent seeing the picture here, the Sheriffs and COP'S have nothing to lose now by simply refusing to issue, you give them something they can gain by increased revenue and knowing that they issued to people who had been properly trained you take away all of there arguments, you can preach the 2A right argument til your blue in the face cuz it isnt getting anywhere and we have seen small gains, Im simply suggesting a new tactic that will shoot down all of their arguments

[G60]

I won't need to come a supreme court carry decision next June or in June of 2013.

Imagine the cost in both $$ and time for us regular people. I can't afford to take 2 weeks off work every couple of years and go full time to a LTC course.

I know some counties accept community college administration of justice or similar courses as training, but not everyone has the convenience of going back to school for a semester to get a carry license.

No amount of training will get past the fact that some sheriffs simply don't think law abiding citizens should be armed at all.

[Tacobandit]

I won't need to come a supreme court carry decision next June or in June of 2013.

Imagine the cost in both $$ and time for us regular people. I can't afford to take 2 weeks off work every couple of years and go full time to a LTC course.

I know some counties accept community college administration of justice or similar courses as training, but not everyone has the convenience of going back to school for a semester to get a carry license.

No amount of training will get past the fact that some sheriffs simply don't think law abiding citizens should be armed at all.

I never said anything about a recert, recerts can be cut down to 8 hours and if people can do a full PD academy on there own time in addition to working a full time job, no one said you have to take off work. If you dont want to do it you basically dont want it that bad, you pretty much want to sit around and have it handed to you well I would rather go out and try whatever tactics I can to get a LTC again. 80 hours to me is nothing.

[stix213]

A fundamental right shouldn't require 80 hours of training.

Plus the majority of no issue counties aren't that way because of a training requirement. They are that way because there is no political upside to issue, while there is downside if an LTCer gets themselves in the news and isn't in the right (as in the Sheriff might get replaced next election). Plus having no issue means law enforcement gets to keep their monopoly on public safety. What do monopolies do when the little guy tries to take just a bit of the action? Exactly

Claiming that the police are better trained is just an excuse not to issue, because it sounds better than saying the constitution is flawed by including the 2A. An 80 hour requirement isn't going to change any issue policies, but instead will only change the excuses given not to issue.

[InGrAM]

I have one, and it was a ***** to go through 16 hours of BS, and it was mostly BS. I would kill myself if I had to go through 80+ hours. You are insane for even thinking such a thing.

When you get a LTC you will understand.

[Shellshocker66]

No amount of training will get past the fact that some sheriffs simply don't think law abiding citizens should be armed at all.

Couldn't have said it better!

Now as for your argument:

As for your revenue, the Sheriff's don't care about the extra monies going to training facilities for LTC's as it add no money to their coffers. Take my county for example, there are maybe a few training places for LTC's and they are spread out in time. So most would travel to Sacramento county for training. They could make money by going "shall issue". But even though the Sheriff has laid off half his deputies on force, plus several key department jobs, he has decided to fight in court the right to keep LTC the way he see's to do it. It's not what you know here, it's WHO you know so 80 plus hours would still not work in my county.

But if you feel you need 80 plus hours please feel free to go get it. I will take my 35 plus years of firearms experience and be happy with the minimum required to get a LTC.

[Tacobandit]

A fundamental right shouldn't require 80 hours of training.

Plus the majority of no issue counties aren't that way because of a training requirement. They are that way because there is no political upside to issue, while there is downside if an LTCer gets themselves in the news and isn't in the right (as in the Sheriff might get replaced next election).

Actually I think it does, when the 2A was drafted it took 2 or 3 minutes to load the gun, nowadays you can put hundreds of rounds through a weapon in 2 or 3 minutes, quite frankly I dont want people running around with weapons they havent been trained on, yea there are a lot of people who have received some training, military and the like but there are a ton that have not and once again if you are too lazy to be properly trained you have no business carrying.

[Firemark]

I honestly believe it has nothing to do with how much it costs or how much training it requires. Large metropolitan county Sheriffs are in league with Police Chiefs and legislators. They are not stupid, they wont admit it but they see the same studies and stats we do, they KNOW that civilians who carry concealed weapons affect criminal behavior and cause crime rates to fall. This does not help the most important bottom line for all of them, funding and money. If there is no crime then their is no money for new laws and crime fighting. I have personally seen Saldana, Sheriff Gore, and Police Chief Landsdowne glad handing and speaking in low tones at gatherings. There is a good ole boy club at work, and they wont give it up cause that means lost money.

[SanPedroShooter]

Guess how much training it took to get my Washington CPl...?

None. I filled out the damn form (one page) and got it a month later in the mail, and it only cost $65 bucks or so....

Anything more is an infrigment, and the actual license itself it pushing it. It is my right as an American to "keep and bear arms", what is so hard about that?

You statists never learn do you?

[stix213]

Actually I think it does, when the 2A was drafted it took 2 or 3 minutes to load the gun, nowadays you can put hundreds of rounds through a weapon in 2 or 3 minutes, quite frankly I dont want people running around with weapons they havent been trained on, yea there are a lot of people who have received some training, military and the like but there are a ton that have not and once again if you are too lazy to be properly trained you have no business carrying.

Did you take an 80 hour training course before exercising your 1A rights here? Come back after you've had proper training

[Tacobandit]

Couldn't have said it better!

Now as for your argument:

As for your revenue, the Sheriff's don't care about the extra monies going to training facilities for LTC's as it add no money to their coffers. Take my county for example, there are maybe a few training places for LTC's and they are spread out in time. So most would travel to Sacramento county for training. They could make money by going "shall issue". But even though the Sheriff has laid off half his deputies on force, plus several key department jobs, he has decided to fight in court the right to keep LTC the way he see's to do it. It's not what you know here, it's WHO you know so 80 plus hours would still not work in my county.

But if you feel you need 80 plus hours please feel free to go get it. I will take my 35 plus years of firearms experience and be happy with the minimum required to get a LTC.

I have over 1000+ hours of training, SWAT training, advanced weapons and tactics training and nearly a decade of PD experience, I am simply stating that the majority of people out there dont have the training and yet they whine its a fundamental right so there lazy A can do the bare minimum. And there are a ton of facilities that can be used, LAPD had 3 that can be used, sheriffs has probably half a dozen, most sheriffs departments have the necessary facilities to do it easily.