California Police Union Legal opinion on Open Carry

[SanPedroShooter]

Fixed it

ha ha, excuse me, new to me.

[non sequitur]

Open Carry

Basically, it's a legal pissing contest between Martin Mayer's people at Jones & Mayer and the Alameda County DA's Office.

Martin Mayer's "Open Carry" Client Alert:

http://www.jones-mayer.com/clientalerts/ca2621082311.html

Alameda County DA POV article:

http://le.alcoda.org/publications/point_of_view/files/OPEN_CARRY.pdf

Stay safe!

[Spelunker]

Those officers would have a sh** fit if they ran into me and my unlicensed, unregistered, unserialized AR pistol. I dont think they would have any idea what to do.

.

Now my question is would they try to say that I obliterated the serial number and then try to take me in?

[The Shadow]

[Uxi]

Recently, the office of a California district attorney published a training bulletin on the issue of open carry. The D.A. advanced the argument that officers confronted with a plain open carry situation – i.e., no suspicion of a criminal offense – can detain the person openly carrying a firearm, not only for the time necessary to determine the load status of the firearm, but also for such time as reasonably necessary to run the person for any history which would preclude possession of a firearm, as well as to run the firearm to determine if it is stolen.

Wait, which DA did this?

[BigDogatPlay]

The article in the OP reads like it came straight out of Lexipol and Bruce Praet.

[Ford8N]

I have to ask, why are cops so afraid of law abiding citizens...with guns?

[vantec08]

I have to ask, why are cops so afraid of law abiding citizens...with guns?

Because LEOs serve and represent politicians and political interests which, at present, are anti-gun and gunowners.

[craneman]

I have to ask, why are cops so afraid of law abiding citizens...with guns?

It seems as if the denser the population, the more afraid they are of guns in any scenario, good or bad. Even us non-threatening law abiding CITIZENS.

[WASR10]

A proper open carry check by LEOs in Santa Clara. The whole cuffed in the cruiser thing seems more of a power trip than SOP to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxP9yaEcNm0

[sandman21]

A proper open carry check by LEOs in Santa Clara. The whole cuffed in the cruiser thing seems more of a power trip than SOP to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxP9yaEcNm0

Here is how it should be done........

[WASR10]

Here is how it should be done........

That's beautiful, right there.

[SanPedroShooter]

It seems like some police advocates, in their efforts to "secure the scene", I cant remember the exact verbiage from the POST style class I took years ago, would be more than happy to be the only people with access to arms.

Fortunately it doesnt work that way in a free country. Could it make their jobs safer...? Or satisfy their often expressed first priority of officer safety and "getting home at night"...?

I am reminded of the deputy COP during Katrina, ""No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons."

It might be just as helpful to fit everyone with a GPS tracker, or install cameras on every street corner.

Our freedoms can be abused by criminals on both sides of the law, and it works both ways. What makes us as citizens safe, may be seen as a threat by police, and being harassed and disarmed can make the police seem like a threat to citizens.

I think lines need to be drawn. Criminals on one side as the enemies of peace and freedom, and everyone else on the other, armed citizens, police and otherwise.

This conflating citizen gun owners and their lawfully possessed and carried firearms with criminals and the guns they use to cause harm and mayhem has got to stop. It only benefits our common enemys. Their will always be some tension between police and citizens, as their should be. We are free people. The police arent super heros standing guard over a flock helpless sheep. And every good American is a bit of anti-authoritarian at heart, we were raised on it.

Reading stuff like this just depresses me for some reason. More so because we are talking about unloaded guns... Do they have this problem in other states?

[Tundy]

I'm sorry, but, I've asked a number of cops, what would they do in relation to observing someone 'open carrying'
there were a number of them, which was actually the majority, that said.
"you would be cuffed and in my back seat until i ascertained who you are, who the gun belonged to, and if you could have it", and in the case of asking a single cop where there were more present, they all nodded in agreement to the statement.

not bashing or anything remotely close, actual questions and actual answers from actual cops.

i will say, the responses, vary, very little with counties, LA though is quite bold and most adamant with that type of response. Santa Clara is the same, while there are only a couple of counties that suggest checking the firearm might not even be done.

The cops you spoke to need some serious training or your simply stirring the pot. I'd say your stirring the pot given the agencies you listed. "Open Carry" is nothing new - it has been a topic of training for well over two years for modern LEO agencies (LASO/ LAPD). You may get some rookies to say something like that during an oral board but most Cops in California are up to speed this simply because agencies don't want to get sued.

Here's the deal. Cops can stop someone to inspect a weapon who is carrying an exposed (non- concealed). They are simply allowed to ensure the weapon is not loaded (and not illegal to possess). Once the weapon is determined to be unloaded (legal), they no longer have a reason to detain you. They can, however, ask you for ID , your shoe size, your favorite football team, or your prediction of the weather - basically have a conversation with you (you dont have to sit and talk with him/her). You simple need to ask if your being detained (they should say no) and you simply walk away. They can ask you a million questions - it's a free country and we ALL enjoy the freedom of speech. On the same note, we also enjoy the right to remain silent too!

Cops can not run the serial number even if it is covered with tape. I've argued this point (refer to 537(e)) of the penal code - which clearly states it is illegal to cover a serial number. I would consider taping your serial numbers as "covering". Many "Open Carry" folks are covering the serial number simply to establish a reason file suit. I hope this changes so in fact a cop can determine if a serial number actually exists vs. being filed off.

My view is simply this. Most Cops love guns and respect the right (law abiding citizens) to bear arms - they are in the same boat as you. They simply have a job to do and sadly, many Open Carry folks are simply testing Cops to establish law suits. Cops don't want to be sued - they want to put bad guys away. If you aren't a bad guy, you probably wont be jailed.

So, exercise your right to Open Carry all you want. But please take the time to let your local law enforcement know what your doing and where at to prevent lawsuits - and more importantly, God forbid, YOU GETTING SHOT AND KILLED FOR NO REASON by a rookie.

We have several groups that conduct open carry activities in Riverside County and call dispatch when they are exercising their right (Starbucks is popular). The cops may do a drive by to ensure the safety of everyone but most of them are educated enough to know they can only ensure the weapon is unloaded - then they go on about our business of catching criminals.

Check out Youtube. You'll see an Oceanside cop (former marine) deal with an open carry subject (another former marine). The cop pretty much makes the open carry subject look (probably feel) like a complete moron...

[SanPedroShooter]

I understand that police are under no obligation to do e-checks. Also I find the idea of calling the police to warn them that I may be exercising my right to bear arms repugnant.

For the record, I dont care to carry an unloaded gun in plain sight.