Legal of HD.

[CK_32]

I'm wondering what are the legal times I can discharge my weapon in my home. When it is ok and not ok to pull a gun on someone.


Reason: I have had some suspicious charictores roaming my neighborhood lately and my aunts car has been stolen from out drive way 5th from my almost always open window. We have had my moms trunk yes just the trunk stolen off her car. My moms Honda looked into and people roaming our front yards and fences.


My question is now just buying a glock 17 when is it my right to pull this firearm on someone in defense. When does it make it ok to show and or use the weapon. Do they need a weapon? Do they need to charge?

I'm not worried about them in my front yard but in my back yard.. Or in my home. Do they need to have a weapon for me to pull it out? Or if they are in my home is that good enough?

Also I've always had this fear of a group of guys as in 5+ jumping me. Buddy in high school got messed up REAL bad from this once. Would it then be ok then to pull out my firearm or do they need to be armed? Because they didnt have a fire arm but 5 on 1 seems like a good enough weapon to me.

Because I have had some people follow me home or a few places before while driving home from work. I know this for a fact because a few times. Not the same people but just random people in 3 occasions. I'm not paranoid I promis. Just a lot of things have been going on lately in my neighborhood.

If there is a place to find this sorry I couldn't find it. Thanks for all your help with this. I just want to know now having a hd/car defense weapon (trunk)

[CK_32]

And I'm no fearing for my life every day. There are just some times I feel that I should pull my weapon out and have it on the ready then think is it justified if I do pull it out right now?

I just want to k ow when I need to and can or when I need to grab a bat or just call the cops.

[curtisfong]

Brandishing is always illegal.

If you are drawing, it means you are in fear of your safety, and it means you are firing to stop the threat. As others have said, in general, having your weapon drawn (where it is legal for you to open loaded carry) is better from a tactical (and safety standpoint). Drawing to threaten or intimidate where deadly force is not justified is never a good idea. The only justification for open loaded carry (i.e. drawing) where otherwise prohibited is to use justified deadly force.

Also, this does not mean drawing means you must shoot.

To summarize:

If the threat level is not high enough to justify your using deadly force, drawing your weapon to threaten is not justified.

[edited to clarify points others have made below]

[CK_32]

Brandishing is always illegal.

If you are drawing, it means you are in fear of your safety, and it means you are firing to stop the threat.

If the threat level is not high enough to justify your using deadly force, drawing your weapon to threaten is not justified.

So then they don't HAVE to have a weapon to pull out my weapon?

As long as I feel my life or my families life is in harm it is justified?

[Caladain]

If you're not trolling: (nothing below is legal advice)

1.) Practice, Practice, Practice. The wording of your post makes it seem like you recently acquired your glock. The time (heaven forbid) you need to use it should not be your first, or hundred and first, time drawing and putting rounds down range. Range time and a couple thousand rounds down range, plus a few courses would be optimal. I have never been in such a situation, but when in panic mode we do everything at 200mph, and thus everything should be muscle memory.

2.) Carry concealed if it's legal to do so where you are AND you have all the proper paperwork. Make sure your pistol is legal, and that your pistol matches what's on your LTC (if applicable). Make sure your method of carry is legal if you can't conceal carry. Get an LTC if you can. Get a good gun lawyer's card and keep it with your wallet.

3.) Draw only if you are in immediate fear for your life or the life of the ones you love. If you make the internal call to draw the weapon from it's holster, you should already have committed yourself to putting rounds down range IF it comes to that. If the BG backs off, let him back off, but Never point a gun at something you won't be willing to destroy, and Never draw a gun in a hostile situation unless you're willing to use it.

4.) Every round you send down range has a lawyer and potential jail time attached to it.

5.) Shoot to end the threat. Not to wound, not to kill, not to scare. To end the threat in the shortest and most direct manner possible. Once the threat is gone, stop engaging. (Ex. don't shoot a BG if he's backing off/running away.

6.) Shut up when the police arrive. Nothing you say can help, and can only hurt you. Say the minimum (see: http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xdtalk-...ml#post1946581), state you are shaken up (you will be), and that you need to contact your lawyer.

7.) Read pretty much everything you can find on this board. All of the above and pretty much any question you might have have, more that likely, been answered.

[Maestro Pistolero]

Brandishing is always illegal.

If you are drawing, it means you are in fear of your safety, and it means you are firing to stop the threat.

If the threat level is not high enough to justify your using deadly force, drawing your weapon to threaten is not justified.

True. I would add that sometimes there may be an emerging threat that is significant enough to draw, but that may not develop to the degree that requires actually firing the weapon.

Sometimes a drawn weapon will diffuse/deter the threat. The idea that if you draw the gun you must automatically fire it is not accurate. (I don't think that's what curtisfong was saying, but I have seen it written many times.)

Self-defense scenarios are dynamic, stressful events that have rapidly changing levels of threat which must be matched by the appropriate level of force, and not more.

When you train, train your mind to be constantly asking the question (as if on speed dial) is my life in imminent danger? If it is, then lethal force may be justified. If it's not, then no.

LE used to call it threat/no threat training. Train with your guns, but train your mind to track the threat level to the best of your ability.

OP, search disparity of force. You will find answers to many of your questions.

6.) Shut up when the police arrive. Nothing you say can help, and can only hurt you. Say the minimum, state you are shaken up (you will be), and that you need to contact your lawyer.

Not completely true in the case of a defensive shooting. Massad Ayoob has great advice here. If you say nothing, you will be treated only as a suspect. If you give certain minimal information per Ayoob, you will tilt the investigation in the correct direction.

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xdtalk-chatter-box/120098-massad-ayoobs-5-things-do-after-shooting.html

My two cents.

[fiddletown]

[1] Look around for an NRA certified instructor teaching a Personal Protection Inside the Home class. That will give you a good foundation.

[2] This site provides a good overview on the general law regarding the use of force in self defense.

[3] In general, one may draw a gun only when he would be justified in using lethal force. And in general, one is justified in using lethal force only when a reasonable and prudent person, in like circumstances and knowing what he knows, would conclude that lethal force was necessary to prevent otherwise immediate, unavoidable death or grave bodily injury to an innocent. And to demonstrate that there was indeed an immediate risk of death or grave bodily injury, one must generally show that the assailant reasonably appeared to --

1. have the Ability, i. e., the power to deliver force sufficient to cause death or grave bodily harm;
2. have the Opportunity, i. e., the assailant was capable of immediately deploying such force;
3. put an innocent in Jeopardy, i. e., the assailant was acting in such a manner that a reasonable and prudent person would conclude that he has the intent to kill or cripple. and
4. circumstances Preclude other safe [to the defender] means of avoiding harm.

[4] So one does not threaten or use lethal force to protect property. And if you see something suspicious, call the cops.

[5] There's a good discussion here about handling the aftermath of a use of force.

[dantodd]

Brandishing is always illegal.

If you are drawing, it means you are in fear of your safety, and it means you are firing to stop the threat.

If the threat level is not high enough to justify your using deadly force, drawing your weapon to threaten is not justified.

As long as you are not threatening anyone there is no requirement to keep your weapon in the holster unless you are going to shoot. If you are not well practiced in drawing from a holster you are much safer holding the weapon in your hand than having it in a holster while investigating someone uninvited in your home/yard. You should have a front fence etc. that will inhibit trespassers if you are going to carry in the front of the house legally. As long as your backyard is fenced (or front) you can freely carry open or concealed on your property.

In your house you can carry anytime you want. Anyone who breaks into your home and isn't related to you is considered a danger to your safety. This doesn't mean you should try and sneak up on them and shoot them but if you feel you need to for your safety this is the one place where the presumption is in your favor.

If someone is actively stealing your car, trunk or whatever from your driveway you cannot use a gun to stop them from doing so. But if you try to intervene and they credibly threaten to injure of kill you then you have a right to defend yourself.

None of the above is legal advice. You should read the laws and think very hard about what it means to take another life and what other things you can do to avoid that possibility.

Finally, get as much range time as possible. The more comfortable you are with your gun and how to shoot the less distracted you'll be by the weapon if/when you get into a stressful situation. The last thing you want to do is have to do is worry about HOW to shoot your gun if the need ever arises when you have decide IF you need to shoot it.

[Caladain]

Not completely true in the case of a defensive shooting. Massad Ayoob has great advice here. If you say nothing, you will be treated only as a suspect. If you give certain minimal information per Ayoob, you will tilt the investigation in the correct direction.

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xdtalk-chatter-box/120098-massad-ayoobs-5-things-do-after-shooting.html

My two cents.

Absolutely correct, amended my post above.

[curtisfong]

AIf you are not well practiced in drawing from a holster you are much safer holding the weapon in your hand than having it in a holster while investigating someone uninvited in your home/yard.

Absolutely. Edited my original post to clarify this. Thanks!

[stix213]

Brandishing is always illegal.

There is a self defense exemption, so no it is not always illegal to brandish a firearm.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/417.html

(2) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of
any other person, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or
unloaded, in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, or who in any
manner, unlawfully uses a firearm in any fight or quarrel is
punishable as follows:

[fiddletown]

There is a self defense exemption, so no it is not always illegal to brandish a firearm.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/417.html

But that will only apply if the use if the gun in self defense was justified.

[ZombieTactics]

So then they don't HAVE to have a weapon to pull out my weapon?

Not necessarily, but you better have a damned good reason for thinking he needs to be shot or threatened with a gun. See below ...

As long as I feel my life or my families life is in harm it is justified?

It depends upon what you mean by "feel". I suggest you read fiddletown's post over-n-over until you have a very clear sense that you get it.

The bad guy can be taking a baseball bat to your car, knocking over your fence, setting fire to your mailbox, throwing beer bottles at your house, calling your mother a whore and (probably) kicking your dog to death ... and that's not a legal reason to draw down on someone or shoot them.

You cannot draw a gun on someone just because you "feel scared". You have to have a rational reason to feel that your life (or another person's life) is being threatened right then. "Threatened" doesn't mean the guy looks scary or is shouting "Ima come kill y'all" from across the street. It means that he is doing something right then that has a good chance of killing you or putting you in the hospital if you don't stop him from doing it.

[stix213]

But that will only apply if the use if the gun in self defense was justified.

Yes, but the blanket statement that brandishing is always illegal is plainly false.

[CK_32]

Ok when I saw bad guy I mean wither a guy getting or already in side my house not looking to run off.

Or several attackers surrounding me and my car with intent to seriously harm.

Not the stupid kids down the street or the foul mouth guy yelling at my mother... But the guy with the bat bashing my car. What about if I'm in the car and he's trying to get inside TO ME...? Is the question I'm asking. Where I am threatened or my loved ones are. I'm asking all this now because now I do have a side arm for this specific reason and want to be clear on when I should even think about running to it. Because like said above when adrenalin and fear gets to us. We will always feel the need to best protect our selves. I just want to learn when the best time to think of a gun should be and not think gun for everything. But in this post above are my main reasonings for pulling out my firearm.