Good Moral Character

[Connor P Price]

As we get more and more good cause statements made available to us through the Sunshine Initiative it will be easier for more amd more people to apply knowing they are similarly situated to others who were approved. For the time being, we still have good moral character to contend with.

If a sheriff begins denying applicants based on the good moral character requirement, what will be accepted to say one doesn't meet this requirement? What types of denials for lack of good moral character won't stand up to a challenge?

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[wildhawker]

Depending on the county, some denials can be reversed with [privately-retained] attorney help.

More broadly, moral character is a bridge I'd rather not have to cross. A bear of a case centering on facts, depos, and interrogatories cloaked in exemptions (no pre-lit discovery via CPRA).

There is one unique EP argument for moral character that I just won't tip until the prior restraint is fully dead, not that I think we'll ever employ it.

-Brandon

As we get more and more good cause statements made available to us through the Sunshine Initiative it will be easier for more amd more people to apply knowing they are similarly situated to others who were approved. For the time being, we still have good moral character to contend with.

If a sheriff begins denying applicants based on the good moral character requirement, what will be accepted to say one doesn't meet this requirement? What types of denials for lack of good moral character won't stand up to a challenge?

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[Dreaded Claymore]

Depending on the county, some denials can be reversed with [privately-retained] attorney help.

Isn't this how Team Billy Jack made money?

[hoffmang]

Isn't this how Team Billy Jack made money?

Nope. They charged on the up front for even normal applicants. Very few get denied and the ones that do is usually because they personally have something *ahem* "unique."

I can also tell you that the best appeals attorneys have a flat fee that's nearly and order of magnitude less than some of the preposterous numbers I've heard of.

-Gene

[Connor P Price]

Brandon, I certainly agree its a bridge that we californians would be better not having to cross. Clearly the common belief is that we won't have to because this becomes a non issue if we are forced shall issue by a scotus decision. That being said its comforting that you seem to have a contingency plan in your pocket.

Ventura County is a perfect example off the limited scope of my thought process. Let's say for example the good cause statements come out and there is one that applies perfectly to a lot of similarly situated residents of the county. Its plausible that we could see a lot of those residents denied based on good moral character since the county understands the equal protection implications. There would then be a period of time before we get actual shall issue (I'm assuming less than a year) where people either have to wait, or fight.

So what fights would win? Which would lose?

Somebody denied for a previous arrest with no conviction? Seems like a good fight. Somebody denied for a speeding ticket three years ago? Probably. Somebody with a misdemeanor drug charge in the past year? Probably not gunna happen. Charge from 20 years ago? Maybe so.

What do you all think?

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[erik_26]

I think it is funny (in a cynical way) that we are judged for 'Good moral character' by elected officials that often demonstrate corruption and poor moral character.

Quiet ironic, imo.

[Connor P Price]

I think it is funny (in a cynical way) that we are judged for 'Good moral character' by elected officials that often demonstrate corruption and poor moral character.

Quiet ironic, imo.

Agreed. Even funnier, our side is winning and there's not a thing they can do about it.

Even if they want to start getting cute with Good Moral Character denials or something, it will only last until "Bear Arms" is recognized as core to the right. I can't decide if I think this is even likely to happen, I'm leaning toward no though. It was a darn slow night at work though, so sitting around thinking about carry rights and surfing Calguns led me to think about it.

[JJE]

I've always wondered what case law there is on "moral character" tests. Does this test appear anywhere else in CA law?

It seems to be non-sensical on its face: A CCW applicant's moral character is judged by a sheriff or CLEO, but I don't think that their own moral character has ever been established. Or is there a similar test for office-holders like sheriffs? Even without getting into any particular sheriff/CLEO's moral character, this requirement just seems arbitrary on it's face.

Has this requirement ever been challenged on that basis? If so, what happened?

[Glock22Fan]

Nope. They charged on the up front for even normal applicants. Very few get denied and the ones that do is usually because they personally have something *ahem* "unique."

I can also tell you that the best appeals attorneys have a flat fee that's nearly and order of magnitude less than some of the preposterous numbers I've heard of.

-Gene

I know of no such case. If you know better, please give details. Indeed, we have advised many people for free right up to them getting a CCW.

[wildhawker]

Moral character determinations exist mainly in the field of federal immigration law, as well as some state professional codes (e.g. law).

The sheriff (or municipal police chief), as the licensing authority, is vested with the authority to contour his own view of "good moral character". Accordingly, the slice of information that's germane to *a* particular licensing authority is exceedingly narrow.

-Brandon

I've always wondered what case law there is on "moral character" tests. Does this test appear anywhere else in CA law?

It seems to be non-sensical on its face: A CCW applicant's moral character is judged by a sheriff or CLEO, but I don't think that their own moral character has ever been established. Or is there a similar test for office-holders like sheriffs? Even without getting into any particular sheriff/CLEO's moral character, this requirement just seems arbitrary on it's face.

Has this requirement ever been challenged on that basis? If so, what happened?

[Southwest Chuck]

Who judges the good moral character of the moral character judge(r) and his capability to judge the same?

But seriously.....

It seems reasonable to call their credentials (moral character) into question, if ours is..... Just because they are elected is no definitive determination of same as we see almost daily in our elected officials conduct

[Connor P Price]

I know of no such case. If you know better, please give details. Indeed, we have advised many people for free right up to them getting a CCW.

So advise us. What do you think about this? What denials for good moral character have been successfully appealed that your aware of?

Moral character determinations exist mainly in the field of federal immigration law, as well as some state professional codes (e.g. law).

The sheriff (or municipal police chief), as the licensing authority, is vested with the authority to contour his own view of "good moral character". Accordingly, the slice of information that's germane to *a* particular licensing authority is exceedingly narrow.

-Brandon

This is what concerns me. It appears this might just need to be looked at as a non issue and wait until scotus affirms the right anyway.

[Rossi357]

Does anyone want to venture what constitutes good moral character. As near as I can tell, it depends on the luck of the draw. What situation you are involved in. What family and culture you were born into.

[Flying Sig]

Does this really happen? A denial based on a person not meeting the requirement of being of "good moral character"? I can't imagine that they could get away with that unless you have a criminal record.

[Connor P Price]

Does this really happen? A denial based on a person not meeting the requirement of being of "good moral character"? I can't imagine that they could get away with that unless you have a criminal record.

I don't know of this happening, but there isn't anything in the statute to prevent it. I don't know much about the appeals process though. Since sheriffs have fairly unlimited latitude on the issue they could deny based on parking tickets from years ago if they wanted. Granted it would look very bad, wouldn't likely hold up to a legal challenge, etc.

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