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  • devildog999
    Calguns Addict
    • Aug 2008
    • 5534

    Federal Law Enforcement Question

    Quick question for you that know more about the law than I do. I am a federal cop on Edwards AFB. Now, as opposed to POST certified cops like CHP, LAPD, LASD, etc, we do not have law enforcement rights while we are not on duty (which we would had the dumb *** government put "arresting capabilities" as opposed to "apprehension abilities" while not on duty). So my question is, does that matter when it comes to getting a department letter head to avoid having to make the fun stuff legal with bullet buttons etc. I would rather ask you people that know the law a lot better before I were to ask my Chief. Thanks in advance, greatly appreciated.
    Originally posted by TRAP55
    Or your ammo stash has replaced your wifes parking spot in the garage.
    When my neighbor asked what all those crates were, I told him if he sees smoke coming from my garage, and me running down the street......he better catch up!
    Originally posted by Steve O
    Just go to safeway to shop for food. The young good looking couple buying healthy food...they're a new couple. The fat ones wearing ****ty clothes not caring about how they look, getting frozen food...they're married!

    sigpic
  • #2
    hoffmang
    I need a LIFE!!
    • Apr 2006
    • 18448

    Some reading for you:





    I haven't looked closely enough recently enough to have an opinion about your status at this time...

    -Gene
    Gene Hoffman
    Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation

    DONATE NOW
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    Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization.
    I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly!


    "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon

    Comment

    • #3
      devildog999
      Calguns Addict
      • Aug 2008
      • 5534

      Thank you for that, though it is informative, it does not mention anything about Edwards AFB (which if it matters is slightly in LA County and mostly in Kern County)
      Originally posted by TRAP55
      Or your ammo stash has replaced your wifes parking spot in the garage.
      When my neighbor asked what all those crates were, I told him if he sees smoke coming from my garage, and me running down the street......he better catch up!
      Originally posted by Steve O
      Just go to safeway to shop for food. The young good looking couple buying healthy food...they're a new couple. The fat ones wearing ****ty clothes not caring about how they look, getting frozen food...they're married!

      sigpic

      Comment

      • #4
        Anchors
        Calguns Addict
        • Apr 2010
        • 5940

        Are you a civilian officer at the base or still enlisted?
        Do your duties involve the general public or only military personnel?
        Basically I'm asking what your title and job are.

        Just curious.

        Comment

        • #5
          devildog999
          Calguns Addict
          • Aug 2008
          • 5534

          I am civilian. I do deal with civilians due to the fact that most of Edwards is civilians. My title is "guard" though we are cops. Specifically while on duty we are LE


          Originally posted by RyanAnchors
          Are you a civilian officer at the base or still enlisted?
          Do your duties involve the general public or only military personnel?
          Basically I'm asking what your title and job are.

          Just curious.
          Last edited by devildog999; 07-09-2011, 3:43 PM.
          Originally posted by TRAP55
          Or your ammo stash has replaced your wifes parking spot in the garage.
          When my neighbor asked what all those crates were, I told him if he sees smoke coming from my garage, and me running down the street......he better catch up!
          Originally posted by Steve O
          Just go to safeway to shop for food. The young good looking couple buying healthy food...they're a new couple. The fat ones wearing ****ty clothes not caring about how they look, getting frozen food...they're married!

          sigpic

          Comment

          • #6
            kw91364
            Junior Member
            • Jul 2009
            • 62

            deleted
            Last edited by kw91364; 06-08-2012, 7:54 PM.

            Comment

            • #7
              dustoff31
              Calguns Addict
              • Apr 2007
              • 8209

              FWIW, a security company that I do firearms instruction for has some federal contracts for different federal agencies. Their armed guards working those contracts are in the same position. For all practical purposes, they have Fed LEO powers on duty. Off duty, nada.

              If one has been issued fed LEO creditials then they are LEOs. If not, then not.
              "Did I say "republic?" By God, yes, I said "republic!" Long live the glorious republic of the United States of America. Damn democracy. It is a fraudulent term used, often by ignorant persons but no less often by intellectual fakers, to describe an infamous mixture of socialism, miscegenation, graft, confiscation of property and denial of personal rights to individuals whose virtuous principles make them offensive." - Westbrook Pegler

              Comment

              • #8
                BigDogatPlay
                Calguns Addict
                • Jun 2007
                • 7362

                I worked on a federal contract (DoD) as a LEO for a few years. Full federal authority on duty, no authority off. Patrol, traffic, investigations the whole gamut. Much of the authority that contract employees can exercise comes from the type of federal jurisdiction present where they are contracted / assigned to work. I am guessing the most if not all of Edwards is still exclusive federal jurisdiction so they can empower a contractor to do pretty much anything on post. Where I worked it was concurrent jurisdiction with the state, so we shared a lot with local and state authorities.

                But because they are contract employees, even though they work and act as LEOs, they are wholly different from actual government employees that are LEO. The government employee LEOs get their authority in California under PC 830.8 and they are not California peace officers although they do have certain rights and privileges (PC 836 and WIC 5150 specifically noted in the statute), so my gut / opinion tells me that they would not be able to purchase / register an AW under the peace officer exemption. There is no grant of peace officer power in 830.8 for contractors that I am aware of.

                The contractors, typically, are required to issue weapons to their employees. It's usually built into the specifications of the contract, along with what weapons and ammo are permissible for issue. If the contract is written with rifles allowed, they should be getting issued. I doubt seriously that the empowering authority, be it the base commander or the provost marshal, would write letters for private purchase of a RAW.

                And, IMO, contractor employees would not be eligible anyway just as I think DoD employee LEOs would not either.
                Last edited by BigDogatPlay; 07-08-2011, 12:05 PM.
                -- Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun

                Not a lawyer, just a former LEO proud to have served.

                Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. -- James Madison

                Comment

                • #9
                  dustoff31
                  Calguns Addict
                  • Apr 2007
                  • 8209

                  Originally posted by BigDogatPlay
                  And, IMO, contractor employees would not be eligible anyway just as I think DoD employee LEOs would not either.
                  I tend to agree. I can say with certainty that at least in the case of the Dept. of the Interior, and their various Bureaus, contractors, and even their own Civil Service security guards are not issued LEO credentials. Whereas, BLM Rangers, BOR Police, etc, are.
                  "Did I say "republic?" By God, yes, I said "republic!" Long live the glorious republic of the United States of America. Damn democracy. It is a fraudulent term used, often by ignorant persons but no less often by intellectual fakers, to describe an infamous mixture of socialism, miscegenation, graft, confiscation of property and denial of personal rights to individuals whose virtuous principles make them offensive." - Westbrook Pegler

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    BigDogatPlay
                    Calguns Addict
                    • Jun 2007
                    • 7362

                    Originally posted by dustoff31
                    I tend to agree. I can say with certainty that at least in the case of the Dept. of the Interior, and their various Bureaus, contractors, and even their own Civil Service security guards are not issued LEO credentials. Whereas, BLM Rangers, BOR Police, etc, are.
                    As are DoD police that are government employees. And those government employees are LEOSA eligible, AFAIK. Just not peace officers in the eyes of California law and not exempt WRT personally owned RAW.

                    And one small caveat... BLM and USFS LEO personnel are specifically excluded under 830.8 from even exercising the powers of a peace officer without written consent of the CLEO of the local jurisdiction in which they work.
                    -- Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun

                    Not a lawyer, just a former LEO proud to have served.

                    Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. -- James Madison

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      kw91364
                      Junior Member
                      • Jul 2009
                      • 62

                      deleted
                      Last edited by kw91364; 06-08-2012, 7:54 PM.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Tacobandit
                        Banned
                        • Sep 2009
                        • 914

                        Are you an 0083 or 0085?

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          BigDogatPlay
                          Calguns Addict
                          • Jun 2007
                          • 7362

                          Originally posted by kw91364
                          Even with that said, getting the letterhead signed by the chief LEO of the base might be impossible if they don't see you as a LEO and in turn will not sign a letterhead (which must have specific wording under the penalty of perjury) that you meet certain criteria (including that it will be for duty use).
                          Whether they view the person as a LEO or not is moot IMO; government employee or civilian contractor acting with the authority of a LEO. Neither classification is a California peace officer. The sale to / possession of exemption in PC12280 is for peace officers with agency approval. Farther down in PC 12287 it says that CADoJ may issue permits to "Federal Law Enforcement and military agencies". That would not include individuals, IMO, and is largely worthless as the federal government can possess and issue it's agency owned weapons pretty much however it feels like.

                          The government could issue those contract employees NFA weapons for use on the job, if the job called for it.

                          I don't think any guard fits under LEOSA even with the new changes in law. Again i'm speaking of guards vs those with the title of "police officer".
                          When I was working on a contract, albeit three decades ago I was employed by a security company, however my title on the job was "police officer". The title, really, doesn't have anything to do with LEOSA eligibility and I was most certainly not, then, a peace officer under California law. LEOSA has specific requirements concerning employment status to trigger it's authority.

                          There are many security guards who are contracted or actually employed by the federal government that hold some type of LE authority on-duty, but that does not include off duty carry or get them federal LE creds. The chance of one of them getting a legitimate signed letterhead for RAW is nil.
                          Agreed in part, and back to my earlier post, it's not nil. It is just plain not possible.

                          My opinion. YMMV.
                          -- Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun

                          Not a lawyer, just a former LEO proud to have served.

                          Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. -- James Madison

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            kw91364
                            Junior Member
                            • Jul 2009
                            • 62

                            deleted
                            Last edited by kw91364; 06-08-2012, 7:54 PM.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Tacobandit
                              Banned
                              • Sep 2009
                              • 914

                              Its what your classification is if you are an 0083 you are a federal police officer and covered under hr218 if you are an 0085 you are a security guard

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