need a legal opine here... PC12020

[dieselpower]

As I read this, any item listed in (a) that is NOT a firearm, (large capacity magazine) can ONLY be possessed for the length of time it takes to turn it over to LEA.... so why do many here (including I) say a large capacity magazine which is found after 1/1/2000 is legal to own?

I understand its up to the State to prove you committed a crime, possession is legal, but seizure is justified under this law....as I see it.

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
16) Any instrument, ammunition, weapon, or device listed in subdivision (a) that is not a firearm that is found and possessed by a person who meets all of the following:
(A) The person is not prohibited from possessing firearms or ammunition pursuant to Section 12021 or 12021.1 or paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 12316 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
(B) The person possessed the instrument, ammunition, weapon, or device no longer than was necessary to deliver or transport the same to a law enforcement agency for that agency's disposition according to law.
(C) If the person is transporting the listed item, he or she is transporting the listed item to a law enforcement agency for disposition according to law.

just asking...

So can we now agree "finding" a large capacity magazine doesn't give you a legal right to keep it.

You must "buy" or otherwise acquire the magazine in a way that is not "found". The guilt would then be on the seller or giver if done after 1/1/2000.

[mtsul]

tag

[Quiet]

I dislike people who encourage others to "find" large capacity magazines.
It just seems like they are telling people it's okay to import/make them, by just saying they "found it".

[Joewy]

Well, Just sent them to me. Then you have nothing to worry about.

[Cokebottle]

12020 includes items for which simple possession is illegal. Some are firearms, some are not (sap, billy, blowgun, etc....)
Simple possession of high-caps is not illegal, therefore, 12020(b)(16) does not apply.

[FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!]

Let me take a stab.

With respect to large-capacity magazines, subdivision (a) prohibits manufacturing, causing to be manufactured, importing into the state, keeping for sale, offering or exposing for sale, giving, or lending.

All subdivision (b)(16) says is that subdivision (a) does not apply under the conditions specified, so if possession of a found instrument or device is a crime under subdivision (a), subdivision (b)(16) provides an exception.

If possession of the instrument or item is not a crime under subdivision (a) in the first place, then the (b)(16) exception doesn't have any effect at all.

*Edited to add that Cokebottle beat me to it.

[bwiese]

I dislike people who encourage others to "find" large capacity magazines.
It just seems like they are telling people it's okay to import/make them, by just saying they "found it".

Yeah, and those guys rolling back from Reno are gonna be screaming 'possession is not illegal' right up to sentencing.

[mrrsquared79]

/flame suit on

When exactly does that statute of limitations expire if one was to purchase high capacity magazines and import them into the state???

[Cokebottle]

I dislike people who encourage others to "find" large capacity magazines.
It just seems like they are telling people it's okay to import/make them, by just saying they "found it".

On this, I agree.

Seems like every time a high cap thread appears, there are a lot of "wink wink" comments regarding the unenforceability of the law.
Yes, you can probably import/manufacture and never be caught as long as you aren't stupid about it.

But everyone has "stupid" moments.

[Hanse Davion]

(a)
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

So giving it to Joewy is still a crime, sorry bud

If you owned a magazine before the commencement date that is high capacity, it is perfectly legal to use and possess, although proving that you owned it before the date is what would be difficult. (Granted in criminal cases, the burden is on the state to prove otherwise)

(b)
(23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully possessed in the state.

Speaks for itself, you can travel with the magazines and bring them back into California if you owned them before 2000.


Dont forget too that you can only USE the magazine with your legally possessed Assault weapon. So dont think simply because you found the magazine by a very strange set of circumstances will allow you to use it in California.


This is an opinion and should not be viewed as legal advice.

[Cokebottle]

/flame suit on

When exactly does that statute of limitations expire if one was to purchase high capacity magazines and import them into the state???

36 months, clock restarts each time it is imported.

12020(b) provides an exemption to importation for magazines that were legally possessed within California prior to the ban.

Buy a mag in Reno and import it today, you're clear by July 1 2014.
Take that magazine with you on a trip to AZ and bring it home in 2013, the clock restarts and runs out in 2016.
Take that magazine with you on a trip to AZ and bring it home in 2015 (after the original SoL expired), the clock restarts and runs out in 2018. Unless the magazine was lawfully possessed within California prior to 2000, you can not EVER "import" that magazine without starting a fresh importation charge.

It could be argued that using a parts kit to repair an illegally-obtained magazine (even if obtained in 2002) would start the SoL clock on a fresh manufacturing charge.

[Cokebottle]

Dont forget too that you can only USE the magazine with your legally possessed Assault weapon. So dont think simply because you found the magazine by a very strange set of circumstances will allow you to use it in California.

Wrong.

Possession and use are not illegal.
There is a period at the end of that sentence. The only criminal charges (under PC12020) surround the method in which the magazine came into your possession within California.

You may NOT use a high-cap in a rifle or pistol that is equipped with a bullet button or other mag lock. That is a separate statute and creates an assault weapon.

You may use a high cap in any featureless build, or any featureless handgun.

[Joewy]

(a)
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

So giving it to Joewy is still a crime, sorry bud
This is an opinion and should not be viewed as legal advice.

But... But ... But... It says nothing about export.

[dieselpower]

Ok Coke, run this by me again...

You are saying (b) (16) only applies to items listed in (a) that are illegal to possess...where do you see that requirement in (b)(16)... to me it says all items in (a) that are FOUND... it doesn't care if its legal or not to possess..so an LEO who finds a large capacity magazine must turn it in...even if its legal for him to possess... a Armored Car Manager can legally possess a large capacity Magazine...but under (b)(16) if he finds one, he must only possess it long enough to turn it in to LEA.

am I wrong here... show me where if I am...

[Cokebottle]

But... But ... But... It says nothing about export.

Not exactly....

The person in possession could in fact export it and then give it to you legally.

But he cannot "keep/offer for sale" within California.

If I had a high-cap that I wanted to get rid of and shipped it to you from my home, I would be guilty.

Legally, I could hand-carry it to a free state and we could then execute the transaction legally... so long as I don't "keep/offer for sale" while in California.
And that's a problem... how do you know that I am going to drive to AZ and ship it to you unless the details of the transaction (keep/offer for sale) were worked out prior to my departure?