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C&R rifle sale legal question

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  • Asphodel
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 1974

    C&R rifle sale legal question

    I was asked a question at the range recently, and had to admit that I didn't know whether there could be some sort of legal issue, what with all the 'fine points' of Federal and California law.......so......is this one 'FUD' or a serious potential problem?

    Visualise, if you will, two shooters, call them Tom and Dick, who are acquaintances, or somewhat social friends, who shoot together at a range from time to time.

    They both had looked at rifles from a shipment of Soviet surplus, at a gun shop, where they both are acquaintances of Harry, the store clerk. (or possibly the store owner, that detail wasn't clear)

    Tom bought a mediocre Nagant, after deciding against buying a nicer one for more $. He regretted his decision a few weeks later, but hadn't a lot of spare $. In a conversation at the gun store, Dick offers to buy Tom's mediocre Nagant at the price Tom paid for it, which would provide Tom with enough ready $ to buy the nicer one he really wanted. Harry, the store clerk, says that would make Tom a criminal for having done a 'straw purchase' on Dick's behalf, in that the rifle in question was recently purchased by Tom.

    Now, everything I've read would seem to indicate that once a C&R class of rifle has been purchased by a private collector, that owner is free to sell it on a 'cash-and-carry' basis to another private collector (given the specs that the purchaser is over 21, not a felon, or otherwise disqualified from purchasing any firearm in California)

    Neither Tom nor Dick has a Federal C&R license.

    So........the question, I think, would be......was Harry 'bluffing' or spreading 'FUD' regarding the 'straw purchaser' issue?

    Is there any specific or even generalised length of time which must elapse before someone who has purchased a C&R rifle from a dealer, with the DROS documentation, may sell the rifle on an undocumented 'cash-and-carry' basis to some other private individual?

    Has this ever been a question addressed in any case law or has there ever been any sort of established 'presumption' of intent in any situation of this general nature?

    (Tom had not purchased that rifle with the intention of re-selling it. He had not offered any other firearms for sale in the past year, so there was no reasonable appearance of Tom attempting to act as a de-facto unlicensed dealer)

    cheers

    Carla
  • #2
    GrizzlyGuy
    Gun Runner to The Stars
    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
    • May 2009
    • 5468

    Harry was either wrong or bluffing, and your understanding of the law regarding C&R private party sales is correct, assuming that the rifle is 50 or more years old. See here in the FAQ:

    How do I buy a C&R long gun (rifle or shotgun)?

    The paperless private party sale could legally happen 1 micro-second after Tom took possession and ownership of the rifle from the gun store. There is no issue of 'straw purchase', Dick is buying Tom's rifle for himself, and Tom's intent was to buy it from the gun store and keep it for himself. He later changed his mind about keeping it.
    Last edited by GrizzlyGuy; 06-18-2011, 8:33 AM.
    Gun law complexity got you down? Get the FAQs, Jack!

    sigpic

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    • #3
      evolution1974
      Member
      • Sep 2009
      • 265

      Originally posted by Asphodel
      Now, everything I've read would seem to indicate that once a C&R class of rifle has been purchased by a private collector, that owner is free to sell it on a 'cash-and-carry' basis to another private collector (given the specs that the purchaser is over 21, not a felon, or otherwise disqualified from purchasing any firearm in California)
      No straw purchase in my opinion. If the long gun (not handgun) is over 50 years old and the above is true and correct then you are good to go on cash and carry. See link for more info.

      Comment

      • #4
        Wernher von Browning
        Calguns Addict
        • Mar 2011
        • 9820

        Agree with GrizzlyGuy, Harry is mistaken or deliberately spreading FUD. Bought rifle, didn't like it, sold it face-to-face like it's nobody's business, and got another.

        It's better to buy C&R rifles face-to-face from private parties, if one can be found, rather than deal with dealers, DROS, fees, waiting period, and all that.

        Note that if / when California AB 809 passes, as of Jan 1 2013 you won't be able to do FTF C&R long guns anymore, everything will have to go through a dealer. So get 'em now...
        sigpic Intendo ad sidera, aliquando ferio Londinium.

        Comment

        • #5
          r3dn3ck
          Banned
          • Feb 2010
          • 1900

          straw is specific ... it points to an intent to provide the gun to someone other than the original purchaser. If you buy a gun and hate it a week later you can sell it just fine to someone that does want it.

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