Question from Idaho and letting brother in LA use guns for summer

[rca81]

Hi,

I live in Idaho and my brother has been attending school here but is now headed home to Los Angeles for summer break. I would like to let him shoot some of my guns while he goes home for a few months.

I have an AR and Glock that I'd let him use. I'm a little confused as to what the rules are regarding this. Since I have not sold him the guns is he legally allowed to bring them home and use for the short term? We would install a bullet button on the AR as well as limit magazine capacity to ten rounds on both guns in order for them to be legal. My understanding from the forums is the bullet button and a ten round magazine would be the only things required to make the AR legal as it currently has a adj stock, pistol grip etc.

If he decides that he does like them and wants to buy them the only requirement would be to do a transfer through an FFL correct? When he drives home the Glock would be unloaded and locked in a case. I plan on separating the AR upper and lower into two cases. Does the lower need to have a cable lock through for transport if it is not a assembled gun? Does the upper need to be locked away as well? If I were to travel home with him and had to leave them for some reason without my guns, is that a problem until I was able to come back and get them?

I've been fortunate to live in Idaho for the last few years where we have great 2nd Amendment rights. Our current big gun "problem" is a debate about whether Idaho should move to a no permit required to carry concealed. While I like the idea, I don't think our permit process is overly burdensome either as you only have to pay $50, pass a backgrounds check and show some proof of basic "gun training". There are some things I miss about CA, but these unconstitutional gun control laws aren't one of them! Where can I find out more about the Calguns foundation etc?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[Quiet]

Is your brother a resident of CA or a resident of ID? This info is needed to determine how Federal laws come into play.

CA laws limit the length a firearm can be loaned to 30 days. If the loan is for more than 30 days, technically, it will need to be transfered through a CA FFL dealer (4473/DROS + 10 day wait).

What is the make/model of the AR? Certain manufacturers & model numbers are make/model banned in CA.


Calguns Foundation website

[rca81]

He is a resident of CA while I am a resident of ID.

My AR has a Daniel Defense M4 upper with Magpul rear flip up sights, sitting on top of a Rock River lower receiver with a Magpul MOE stock and grip. Is there paperwork required or a process to follow for a loan?

[Librarian]

In short, while your brother may certainly use your guns while in ID, he is not permitted to bring them back to CA - that would be an illegal interstate transfer, from you to him, and an illegal transport into CA by your brother.

See the wiki on interstate transfer - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...rms_Interstate

[paul0660]

18 U.S.C 922:

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to
transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to
any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the
transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not
reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business
entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in
which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall
not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a
firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an
acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who
is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of
the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a
firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting
purposes;

If it is not a AW, let her fly IMO.

Also, the "loan" thing does not include a method of releasing possession nor getting it back, and face to face transfers are NOT required. Thirty days are up......????? call the owner and say you need it longer. Perhaps the intent of the law was different, but in that case the lawyers we call our representatives should have done a better job.

[Librarian]

18 U.S.C 922:

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to
transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to
any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the
transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not
reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business
entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in
which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall
not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a
firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an
acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who
is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of
the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a
firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting
purposes;

If it is not a AW, let her fly IMO.

Also, the "loan" thing does not include a method of releasing possession nor getting it back, and face to face transfers are NOT required. Thirty days are up......????? call the owner and say you need it longer. Perhaps the intent of the law was different, but in that case the lawyers we call our representatives should have done a better job.

But you have to include (a)(3) - it is unlawful

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport
into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a
corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a
place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such
person outside that State,

"otherwise obtained" includes a loan - thus, CA brother can borrow ID brother's guns, in ID or in CA, but not bring them back to CA from ID.

I do not think CA brother can keep them if ID brother lends them to CA brother in CA (though using them in CA while ID brother is still here is OK) - there just isn't any way to distinguish that behavior from an illegal transfer.

[Quiet]

But you have to include (a)(3) - it is unlawful "otherwise obtained" includes a loan - thus, CA brother can borrow ID brother's guns, in ID or in CA, but not bring them back to CA from ID.

I do not think CA brother can keep them if ID brother lends them to CA brother in CA (though using them in CA while ID brother is still here is OK) - there just isn't any way to distinguish that behavior from an illegal transfer.