Handgun lock 30 day period for ppt

[BillieBob]

Hey guys. A buddy and I were having a theoretical conversation and I was curious to get some more opinions as we are not experts in CA gun laws.
The situation is a ppt where the buyer brings a lock with them that they bought longer than 30 days previous but that they doctored a receipt to say less than 30 days. Would this be caught by the DOJ and what would the offense be? I was thinking that if it was caught it would probably be a felony. He thought it would only be a misdemeanor. Again this is a theoretical conversation. I am not asking how to break the law. Just curious on some more opinions. Thanks.

[CHS]

The DOJ will never see the receipt unless they look at it in an audit.

Same with the ATF (handgun locks are BOTH federal and state law requirements).

However, the requirement is on the FFL and not the buyer. So technically the FFL is liable for not detecting that it's a fake.

Interesting.. I don't know.






(In reality, it will probably never be caught. I doubt the regulatory bodies genuinely care)

[hawk1]

First, the lock/receipt is a federal requirement.
DOJ only requires it to secured by an appropriate method and requires a receipt (any date) to show proof of ownership along with an affidavit of ownership. Do not lie on the affidavit and do not "make" a receipt for it.

For the feds, easiest thing is to print your own receipt off the internet and supply with the lock.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/ab106faqs.php#4

May a firearms dealer refuse a Private Party Transfer if the firearm does not include a DOJ-approved FSD?

No. Under California Law (Penal Code section 12082), a firearms dealer may not refuse to conduct a private party transfer. However, private parties must demonstrate compliance with the FSD requirements before the firearms dealer may deliver the firearm. If the purchaser is unable to demonstrate compliance with the FSD requirement, the firearm should be returned to the seller.

Is presentation of a receipt always required when a person signs the affidavit stating ownership of a DOJ-approved lock box?

Yes. If the firearm recipient claims an exception to the FSD requirement due to ownership of a DOJ-approved lock box, a receipt for the DOJ-approved lock box will be required in all circumstances.

When must a lock box affidavit be completed?

An affidavit is not needed if (1) the lock box is purchased at the same time as the firearm or (2) the firearm is delivered within 30 days of the date on the lock box receipt and the lock box is presented at the time of delivery. For subsequent purchases, the recipient must sign a lock box affidavit and provide a receipt for the lock box; however in this case the date of the receipt does not matter and the lock box does not need to be presented.

[taperxz]

Receipts can be made by anyone legally. You could purchase something from your two year old and make a receipt for purchase. They can come in almost any form. I would not worry about it. Buy a car from a private party lately??

[Librarian]

First, the lock/receipt is a federal requirement.

California Penal Code differs: 12088.1

(a)All firearms sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including private transfers through a dealer, and all firearms manufactured in this state, shall include or be accompanied by a firearms safety device that is listed on the Department of Justice's roster of approved firearms safety devices and that is identified as appropriate for that firearm by reference to either the manufacturer and model of the firearm, or to the physical characteristics of the firearm that match those listed on the roster for use with the device.
...
(e)The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if all of the following apply:

(1)The purchaser or transferee purchases an approved safety device no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or transferee takes possession of the firearm.

(2)The purchaser or transferee presents the approved safety device to the firearms dealer when picking up the firearm.

(3)The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt to the firearms dealer which shows the date of purchase, the name, and the model number of the safety device.

(4)The firearms dealer verifies that the requirements in (1) to (3), inclusive, have been satisfied.

(5)The firearms dealer maintains a copy of the receipt along with the dealers' record of sales of firearms.

[hawk1]

California Penal Code differs: 12088.1

Differs only by the way you slice it.

99% of of all questions here regarding a lock and receipt are due to the federal requirement (Childlock Safety Act of 2005). I replied in regards to the feds and I also included what the DOJ requires.

"An approved safety device" covers a lot more than just a lock according to DOJ.

I see no problem in what I posted as being true and accurate...

[Librarian]

Differs only by the way you slice it.

99% of of all questions here regarding a lock and receipt are due to the federal requirement (Childlock Safety Act of 2005). I replied in regards to the feds and I also included what the DOJ requires.

"An approved safety device" covers a lot more than just a lock according to DOJ.

I see no problem in what I posted as being true and accurate...

Your statement that the receipt is a federal requirement is refuted by California Penal Code. It is not a matter of 'slicing' anything.

The Federal requirement is merely the presence of the lock; nothing in 18 USC 922 (z) nor in CFR specifies anything about a receipt. That is, in fact, a likely source of the problem with the Feds not accepting the CA safe affidavit in place of a lock - there are no documentation requirements.

[mdimeo]

When I bought a rifle years ago, I carried in a lock with a handwritten receipt saying it was sold to me for $1 with a date from the day before.

The FFL (a pawn shop) called the DOJ to make sure it was OK, and they said to go ahead.

I know people who buy gun locks at wal-mart and then return them after the transaction. I think that's rude to wal-mart, but perfectly legal.

[sacluded]

My FFL just writes "lock" on the receipt for the transfer.

[Ubermcoupe]

I guess the doctored recipt comes down to how well one could sleep @ night (ethically speaking of course).

I'm not sure about the punishments for lying about the validiity of the lock recipt (I am @ work with limited internet access) but, IMHO, it could be construed as lying on a federal document and punished according to that -(thinking that because it's a federal document that it would be a felony).

[hawk1]

Your statement that the receipt is a federal requirement is refuted by California Penal Code. It is not a matter of 'slicing' anything.

The Federal requirement is merely the presence of the lock; nothing in 18 USC 922 (z) nor in CFR specifies anything about a receipt. That is, in fact, a likely source of the problem with the Feds not accepting the CA safe affidavit in place of a lock - there are no documentation requirements.

The federal requirement is not just "merely the presence" of a lock, you need to have the receipt showing it's purchase within the last 30 days as well.

Even California will not take the affidavit on it's own. You must have a receipt (with any date) showing it's purchase...

[taperxz]

No where in the law does it say the lock has to be a "new lock" It says it must be purchased in the last 30 days. I can still by a lock from a private party and get a receipt. NO???

[Librarian]

The federal requirement is not just "merely the presence" of a lock, you need to have the receipt showing it's purchase within the last 30 days as well.

Even California will not take the affidavit on it's own. You must have a receipt (with any date) showing it's purchase...

Please cite the Federal law.

You won't find it - the 30 day nonsense is California.

See also the wiki - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...es.2C_and_Laws

ETA: California will happily take the affidavit without the receipt: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/fsdcertlist.php

Transfers of firearms to persons who demonstrate ownership of a qualifying gun safe. Ownership may be demonstrated by displaying to the firearms dealer:
1) A receipt indicating purchase of, or an affidavit, signed under penalty of perjury, stating that the purchaser owns a gun safe, and
2) An affidavit, signed under penalty of perjury, stating that the gun safe meets the standards set forth in DOJ regulations.

[Librarian]

No where in the law does it say the lock has to be a "new lock" It says it must be purchased in the last 30 days. I can still by a lock from a private party and get a receipt. NO???

That's supposed to work. Some FFLs don't seem to believe that will pass DOJ audit. They may be correct.

[kemasa]

hawk1 has it backwards and Librarian is correct.

The receipt within 30 days is CA, not Federal. Certified locks are CA, not Federal. The affidavit is CA, not Federal.

With respect to the topic, a friend can sell you a lock and give you a receipt and you can sell a friend a lock and give your friend a receipt. Although a particular FFL might not accept that.