5150 Prohibition Questions

[Rhiainfellt]

[Anchors]

I hope your daughter gets better. I'm not sure, but I think the 5150 is just a California thing right? Couldn't you move out of state?

Wanna bet? I carry around 3 pocket guides that I go to for the unusual weapons cases I get in the field. Weapons laws in California are convuluted at best and I personally only know maybe 3 officers that know that stuff backwards and forwards.

If she carries a leatherman around, I am willing to bet (NOT LEGAL ADVICE HERE) money that she will be ok. As long as she doesnt try to stab someone with it for no reason obviously. It sounds like your daughter is on board with helping herself right now. I think what you guys are doing is the right thing by playing things conservatively until you get some concrete answers.

I hope your daughter gets better as well. I'll hold her in my prayers.

I'm glad a LEO said it so I didn't get accused of cop-bashing haha most officers are NOT well-versed in the convoluted and ridiculous weapons laws here. Think about how much we've had to study just to be somewhat proficient? They don't have time to research every tidbit like we do for our hobbies.

[jeep7081]

If she is held further on 5250 she can never possess a firearm for life. Federal law. Avoid that at all costs.

Yep. After the 3 day hold, she can't get one.

[DarthSean]

Depending on her diagnosis and her prognosis, once she gets her gun rights back your family (or someone else) may need to keep an open dialogue on her mental health issues and her ownership/use of firearms for a very long time. If she is 15, it sounds like she may get a small window of opportunity to go shooting with her crew before she turns 21, but if she ever wants to be an adult leader I'm not sure the BSA will take her.

[Rhiainfellt]

If she is held further on 5250 she can never possess a firearm for life. Federal law. Avoid that at all costs.

They never asked my daughter about voluntarily staying. We, as her parents, had to approve the voluntary confinement.

I doubt it is possible for an unemancipated minor to be held on a 5250. Unemancipated minors do not participate in decisions regarding their confinement. The parents/guardians are responsible for decisions regards a child's/ward's confinement. I suspect that if the parents/guardians refused voluntary confinement they would get an emergency order taking away the parents'/guardians' right to make decisions regard their child's/ward's healthcare rather than doing a 5250 on the child.

[GrizzlyGuy]

Did I interpret section 8100 (a) & (b) correctly?

Are air pistols and air rifles considered firearms?

I'm sorry to hear about your daughter. Coincidentally, my friend's daughter is dealing with a similar issue right now, but her counselor did inform them and they were able to admit her for voluntary treatment.

Yes, you are interpreting 8100 correctly. The "or any other deadly weapon" restriction in 8100 (a) only while in the mental health facility receiving treatment. 8103 (f) (1) specifies the relevant prohibition once she is released from the facility:

(f) (1) No person who has been (A) taken into custody as provided
in Section 5150 because that person is a danger to himself, herself,
or to others, (B) assessed within the meaning of Section 5151, and
(C) admitted to a designated facility within the meaning of Sections
5151 and 5152 because that person is a danger to himself, herself, or
others, shall own, possess, control, receive, or purchase, or
attempt to own, possess, control, receive, or purchase any firearm
for a period of five years after the person is released from the
facility.

However, the prohibition extends to ammunition because of 12316 PC, and "ammunition" is broadly defined to include magazines, speed loaders, clips, etc.:

(b) (1) No person prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm
under Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103
of the Welfare and Institutions Code shall own, possess, or have
under his or her custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded
ammunition.
(2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include,
but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include
blanks.

Air guns are not firearms. The term "firearm" is defined in 12001 PC, which references 16520 PC:

(a) As used in this part, "firearm" means any device,
designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a
barrel, a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of
combustion.
(b) As used in the following provisions, "firearm" includes the
frame or receiver of the weapon...

(19) Sections 8100, 8101, and 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions
Code.

Keep in mind that your daughter can petition the court to have the firearms prohibition lifted before it expires in 5 years. This process is explained in W&I 8103 (f) (5) and is best handled via an attorney. She can only do this once during the 5-year prohibition, so it may be best to wait a while until she can show a history of treatment and compliance with doctor's instructions, attending doctor appointments on time, etc.

[dantodd]

Just have to say that your post was AWESOME GrizzlyGuy.

[Rhiainfellt]

I'm sorry to hear about your daughter. Coincidentally, my friend's daughter is dealing with a similar issue right now, but her counselor did inform them and they were able to admit her for voluntary treatment.

Yes, you are interpreting 8100 correctly. The "or any other deadly weapon" restriction in 8100 (a) only while in the mental health facility receiving treatment. 8103 (f) (1) specifies the relevant prohibition once she is released from the facility:



However, the prohibition extends to ammunition because of 12316 PC, and "ammunition" is broadly defined to include magazines, speed loaders, clips, etc.:



Air guns are not firearms. The term "firearm" is defined in 12001 PC, which references 16520 PC:



Keep in mind that your daughter can petition the court to have the firearms prohibition lifted before it expires in 5 years. This process is explained in W&I 8103 (f) (5) and is best handled via an attorney. She can only do this once during the 5-year prohibition, so it may be best to wait a while until she can show a history of treatment and compliance with doctor's instructions, attending doctor appointments on time, etc.

Thank you GrizzlyGuy. This is perfect. It will be up to her when she is 18 yrs old (a little over 2 yrs from now) or older to come up with the money and petition the court.

Now I have one final questions, can my husband pick my daughter up from school on the way home from the range or does he have to go home and store the guns and ammunition first?

(BTW, the probation officer recommended we speak with Legal Services of Northern California. I appreciate that he did not try to give us advice on something that was outside of his expertise. After looking at their web site I doubt they have any volunteer attornies that deal with issues like this one and if they did, I think the would take one look at our income and say go hire your own attorney.)

[dantodd]

He should keep the guns in the locked trunk or in locked containers (gun cases etc) so your daughter has no possibility of "possessing" the guns. If he has a ccw carrying the gun on his person should he ok but be careful setting it down somewhere she could get access

[ohsmily]

You are in the Sacramento area. Give me a call at my office. Don may send you my way anyway. 916 444 9845. Tell the person answering the phone that it is a gun related issue. I will likely be able to provide you with some answers with just the phone call. You can also call Don and see if he can provide assistance or if he wants to send you my way. Either way.


ETA: Grizzly Guy pretty much nailed the statutes you will be contending with.