Making 10/20's and 10/30's

[Robidouxs]

Which method would you use to make 10/20's or 10/30's for any type of magazine?

1) a block of wood or hard plastic to make the 10 round capacity
2) rivets to stop the follower from traveling to accept more than 10 rounds
3) a block of wood or plastic to make the 10 round capacity plus epoxy
4) something else not described here

I remember factory H&K pistol magazines are blocked at 10 rounds via the follower being extended.

[stix213]

#1 would not be permanent as required by pc 12020. The other 2 sounded fine.

[speeedracerr]

#1 would not be permanent as required by pc 12020. The other 2 sounded fine.

I always wondered about this:
Since the law states that a magazine should be permanently limited to a 10 round capacity...

What happens when one inserts a piece of wood block or plastic magazine block inside a magazine without altering the magazine by riveting or gluing?

Technically this should be permanent unless the operator decides to dissemble the magazine to remove those blocks right?

Can't it be argued that the magazine was made to permanently accept only 10 rounds since there is some "blocking" device inside?

Likewise, if one were to dissemble the magazine to take out those blocks then can't it be argued that one has now created "magazine rebuild kits"?

[stix213]

I always wondered about this:
Since the law states that a magazine should be permanently limited to a 10 round capacity...

What happens when one inserts a piece of wood block or plastic magazine block inside a magazine without altering the magazine by riveting or gluing?

Technically this should be permanent unless the operator decides to dissemble the magazine to remove those blocks right?

Can't it be argued that the magazine was made to permanently accept only 10 rounds since there is some "blocking" device inside?

Likewise, if one were to dissemble the magazine to take out those blocks then can't it be argued that one has now created "magazine rebuild kits"?

Certainly it can be argued, but you could be doing that arguing in court which seems a silly thing to risk for something as cheap as a mag rebuild kit. Problem is "permanent" has not been legally defined yet. The consensus here has been "permanent" means you can't easily convert the mag back to large-capacity mag status without damaging the magazine or replacing parts. Just inserting a block would not meet that since you can turn it into a large-capacity mag in less than 2 seconds, and if that is shown it court I doubt it passes any common sense test of permanence.

[bsim]

Agree, permanent isn't defined. If you have to disassemble to change capacity, its a pretty good argument for permanent.

A rivet is pretty easy to drill out, not permanent.

Epoxy-ing the floor to the base so that the body has to be destroyed to change (or even clean it)? Now we're moving towards "permanent" in some peoples eyes.

[Smokeybehr]

A plastic block, similar to the ones sold by many of the vendors on the board, combined with a rivet in the baseplate to prohibit easy disassembly, is the cheapest and easiest way to make the mags permanently low-capacity.

I have several mags that are modified by drilling a hole and attaching a rivet in the side.

[speeedracerr]

A plastic block, similar to the ones sold by many of the vendors on the board, combined with a rivet in the baseplate to prohibit easy disassembly, is the cheapest and easiest way to make the mags permanently low-capacity.

I have several mags that are modified by drilling a hole and attaching a rivet in the side.

What I was wondering was... if we do buy those mag blocks sold by the vendors here on CGN and replaced them with the original base plate wouldn't that be enough to permanently render the magazine a 10 round capacity?

I guess what Im getting at is sure if we drilled holes attaching rivets, epoxying the spring to the mag block that would make it much more difficult to put it back to its original form (a standard cap).

What if we didn't want to alter our magazines in the event we decided we want our rifles to be configured for featureless compliant rifle (of course here, Im talking about magazines owned before the ban).

Wouldn't this be like an Oxymoron? If we put a magazine block it actually limits the capacity to 10 rounds permanently unless the operator decides to dismantle it thus rending the magazine as parts or "magazine rebuild kits".

Either way, In my opinion this situation seems to follow compliancy with the law. Of course, Its just an opinion and Im sure to be wrong at that

If LEO wanted you to dissemble your magazine to ensure that your magazine was 10round compliant and you then dismantles it, at that point doesn't the magazine becomes a rebuild kit?

Haha... I guess Im just trying to follow logic but with our laws here in California I guess there really isn't any.

[stix213]

What I was wondering was... if we do buy those mag blocks sold by the vendors here on CGN and replaced them with the original base plate wouldn't that be enough to permanently render the magazine a 10 round capacity?

If it only took 2 seconds, no tools, and no extra parts to convert your 10/30's to 30/30's, do you really think a CA DA is going to believe those magazines to be "permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds" per PC 12020? That's a huge and risky stretch....

I guess what Im getting at is sure if we drilled holes attaching rivets, epoxying the spring to the mag block that would make it much more difficult to put it back to its original form (a standard cap).

Ummm that's the entire point of making the modification permanent.

[speeedracerr]

If it only took 2 seconds, no tools, and no extra parts to convert your 10/30's to 30/30's, do you really think a CA DA is going to believe those magazines to be "permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds" per PC 12020? That's a huge and risky stretch....

I agree... But at the same time once the magazine has been disassembled in that very 2 seconds it becomes a "magazine rebuilt kit" just as fast.

I think the problem would lie on the "INTENT" of what one will do with those legally owned preban magazines or rebuilt kits.

Only the operator knows what they intend to do, either leave it as a rebuilt kit configuration or reassemble legally owned preban magazines for featureless builds or commit a felony to use (standard caps) for BB configured rifles.

Ummm that's the entire point of making the modification permanent.

I totally agree with you about taking precautions... I was just posing the questions because I can see where logically there can be an argument about the magazine.

In my opinion, once a magazine block is inserted it establishes the "intent" to make the magazine 10 round compliant by the removal of the original base plate rendering it permanent.

The only way to convert that magazine into a high cap will require some modifications to the magazine block (breaking the plastic causing the 10 round limit) or reinserting the original base plate. This is where the intent can violate the PC. with the exception of putting together legally owned pre ban magazines.

BTW: I'm not condoning anything of the like, just posing the questions regarding the logic and how funny things can be interpreted or misinterpreted.