SB 124: 2011 DeLeon Ammunition Bill

[puppy8a9]

Looks like California State Senator Kevin DeLeon was not sufficiently embarrassed when his ammo registration bill, AB 962, was struck down as unconstitutional in federal court. Clearly not having learned his lesson, he is now getting into a pissing match by introducing another ammo bill in SB 124. These anti-gunners in California just don't get it.

MAIN BILL PAGE: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/po...ss=CUR&house=B

http://leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_0101-0150/sb_124_bill_20110126_introduced.html

[cvc04]

"Cop Killer" bullet ban

Kevin De Leon is up to his old tricks again!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=%2Fn%2Fa%2F2011%2F01%2F27%2Fstate%2Fn140415S80.DTL

[puppy8a9]

SEC. 6. Section 30320 of the Penal Code is amended to read:
30320. Any person, firm, or corporation who, within this state,
manufactures, imports, sells, offers to sell, or knowingly transports
any handgun ammunition designed primarily to
penetrate metal or armor is guilty of a felony and upon conviction
thereof shall be punished by imprisonment in state prison, or by a
fine not to exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both that
fine and imprisonment.
SEC. 7. Section 30325 of the Penal Code is amended to read:
30325. Nothing in this article shall apply to or affect the
possession of handgun ammunition designed primarily
to penetrate metal or armor by a person who found the
ammunition, if that person is not prohibited from possessing firearms
or ammunition pursuant to subdivision (a) of Section 30305, Chapter
2 (commencing with Section 29800) or Chapter 3 (commencing with
Section 29900) of Division 9 of this title, or Section 8100 or 8103
of the Welfare and Institutions Code, and the person is transporting
the ammunition to a law enforcement agency for disposition according
to law.
SEC. 8. Section 1 of this act shall only become operative if
submitted to and adopted by the electors. The Secretary of State
shall place Section 1 of this act on the ballot of the next statewide
election.
SEC. 9. No reimbursement is required by this act pursuant to
Section 6 of Article XIII B of the California Constitution because
the only costs that may be incurred by a local agency or school
district will be incurred because this act creates a new crime or
infraction, eliminates a crime or infraction, or changes the penalty
for a crime or infraction, within the meaning of Section 17556 of the
Government Code, or changes the definition of a crime within the
meaning of Section 6 of Article XIII B of the California
Constitution.

[Carlosa]

Oh wait is this the same thing...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=%2Fn%2Fa%2F2011%2F01%2F27%2Fstate%2Fn140415S80.DTL

[Librarian]

Aaaand we have our second 'official' bill thread for 2011-2012.

Thanks, puppy.

16660 is new numbering for 12320. New numbering is used because the effective date of this bill would be the same date as the effective date of the new PC Dangerous Weapons renumbering.

And I just read all the way through it:

SEC. 8. Section 1 of this act shall only become operative if
submitted to and adopted by the electors. The Secretary of State
shall place Section 1 of this act on the ballot of the next statewide
election.

This is a proposed ballot measure for the 'murder' part.

[mdimeo]

How did this guy get elected/re-elected? Hope you voters in his district are taking notes for the next election. ALL liberals must be removed from office they are systematically destroying this state let alone the country.

Keep in mind that gun owners are a minority in California. Restrictions get passed because they're popular, and banners get re-elected for the same reason.

Now go write it 100 times on the chalkboard: "I am in the minority. Most of the state thinks I'm crazy."

[POLICESTATE]

Would be nice if Kevin would stop wasting his time (and taxpayer money) on stupid crap and start working on fixing our financial woes? One day this state will be so broke and the people so desperate that armor piercing ammo is going to be the least of our concerns.

[kcbrown]

Note that the bill talks about rounds "designed to" penetrate armor or metal.

But I see no clarification of what, specifically, "designed to" means here.

If it means "created specifically with the intent to ..." then I'd think this would be trivial to avoid. But if it really means "is capable of" then that would make this into a full-on ban (except for law enforcement, of course) of all ammunition except perhaps certain types of shotshell, since even the lowly .22LR is capable of penetrating metal.

[Librarian]

According to this bill there are enhancements for crimes committed while wearing a vest. So as written, if a police officer is doing his job and later found to have erred and committed a crime as defined in the specific section - he's on the hook, correct?

And who defines "for use in a pistol" regarding ammunition?

Are you looking at this?

(b) Any person who wears a body vest in the commission or
attempted commission of a violent offense, as defined in subdivision
(b) of Section 12021.1, shall, upon conviction of that felony or
attempted felony, in addition and consecutive to the punishment
prescribed for the felony or attempted felony of which he or she has
been convicted, be punished by an additional term of one, two, or
five years. The court shall order the middle term unless there are
circumstances in aggravation or mitigation. The court shall state the
reasons for its enhancement choice on the record at the time of the
sentence.

If so, that's existing law, not something introduced by this bill. See also http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=161873 - there are typography conventions in bill text.

[AndrewMendez]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_de_Le%C3%B3n

His current page now tells about AB962 ruled unconstitutional, however, he is introducing something similar.

[Interfan]

I would think that the good people of Senate District 22 would rather have jobs, better roads, better schools, etc. than another extension of Mr. DeLeon's ego and personal causes. Perhaps CGF should help whoever runs against him. Think of it as taking baby aspirin to help prevent a heart attack...

[vincnet11]

What's "armor piercing" or ammo that "penetrates metal" again, does this include fmj? Technically some fmj ammo will penetrate metal.

[PyroFox79]

Isn't AP ammo already banned or something like that? So would this just be beating a dead rotting horse?

[NytWolf]

If I'm reading the new proposal correctly, all he is doing is taking out the word "primarily" out of a law that was in place from 1990.

"designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor"
to
"designed to penetrate metal or armor"

To me, he has his head so far up his rear-end, he has actually done the opposite of what he intended. He wanted to broaden the coverage of the law, but to me, the way it reads now, it actually narrows the coverage of that law.

"De Leon said that in his new bill, he had amended the language so that no future gun rights lawsuit could challenge the state's ban on armor-piercing bullets." If that's his way of amendments, let him amend all he wants.

To me, all I see is a kid who got his butt chewed so bad, he just wants to do something to make himself happy.

DeLeon: "Errgh, unconstitutionally vague! Hmph! I'll show 'em. I'll show 'em, yeah! I'll pass an amendment. See if they can say this one is unconstitutionally vague."

[timdps]

If I'm reading the new proposal correctly, all he is doing is taking out the word "primarily" out of a law that was in place from 1990.

"designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor"
to
"designed to penetrate metal or armor"

To me, he has his head so far up his rear-end, he has actually done the opposite of what he intended. He wanted to broaden the coverage of the law, but to me, the way it reads now, it actually narrows the coverage of that law.

Interesting point. How many specific calibers/brands of handgun ammo are specifically "designed to penetrate metal or armor"? Are there any? Or is he talking about any jacketed handgun round? I guess this completely exempts hollowpoints since they are specifically designed not to "penetrate" anything.

What's "armor piercing" or ammo that "penetrates metal" again, does this include fmj? Technically some fmj ammo will penetrate metal.

From the bill

The bill would further
omit reference to ammunition primary designed for use in a rifle and
instead define "handgun ammunition designed to penetrate metal or
armor" to mean ammunition, except a shotgun shell, capable of
penetrating a body vest or body shield when discharged from a
handgun.

This appears to be a completely new definition of handgun ammo to mean ANY ammunition fired from a handgun, so would include 7.62x39 and 223/5.56 ammo fired from AK and AR handguns.

Existing law provides that any person, firm, or corporation who,
within this state, manufactures, imports, sells, offers to sell, or
knowingly transports any handgun ammunition designed primarily to
penetrate metal or armor is guilty of a felony and upon conviction
thereof shall be punished by imprisonment in state prison, or by a
fine not to exceed $5,000, or by both that fine and imprisonment.
This bill would delete the word "primarily" from those provisions
and recast those provisions to be based on handgun ammunition
designed to penetrate metal or armor.

Looks to me like anyone owning an AK or AR pistol that imports 7.62x39 or 223/5.56 ammo would be subject to this provision. If you do not own an AK or AR pistol, you MIGHT be legally able to import 7.62x39 or 223/5.56 ammo.

Looks to me like an end run around the handgun/rifle ammo question by defining ANY ammo used in a handgun as handgun ammo (certain amount of logic there...). Given the vest penetration characteristics of 7.62x39 and 223/5.56 ammo, it would seem certain that any variety of these ammo types would be classified as handgun ammunition and be completely banned - including possession:

30315. Any person, firm, or corporation who, within this state knowingly possesses any handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor is guilty of a public offense.

"handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor" is probably constitutionally vague, but I think passage of this law could cause a lot of problems.

Still confused about this part because it is talking about exempting ammo primarily designed for use in a rifle which contradicts with the part above that says any ammo fired from a handgun is handgun ammo.

SEC. 4. Section 16660 of the Penal Code is amended to read:
16660. As used in this part, "handgun ammunition designed
primarily to penetrate metal or armor" means any
ammunition, except a shotgun shell or ammunition primarily
designed for use in a rifle, that is designed
primarily to penetrate capable of penetrating a
body vest or body shield when discharged from a handgun ,
and has either of the following characteristics:
(a) Has projectile or projectile core constructed entirely,
excluding the presence of traces of other substances, from one or a
combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, beryllium copper,
or depleted uranium, or any equivalent material of similar density
or hardness.
(b) Is primarily manufactured or designed, by
virtue of its shape, cross-sectional density, or any coating applied
thereto, including, but not limited to, ammunition commonly known as
"KTW ammunition," to breach or penetrate a body vest or body shield
when fired from a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person.