Under Ca law, it legal to.....

[CSACANNONEER]

Buy a firearm in Ca, remove it from the state, work on it and bring it back as long as it is in a Ca legal configuration?

Yea, I thought so. So, I spoke with ATF at SHOT. I got the answer I wanted from them. There is nothing in any federal law which would prevent me from buying a stripped receiver in Ca. (due to Ca's flawwed system, I am forced to DROS it as a long gun), remove it from the state (I don't know if this step would be needed but, I'm playing it safe) and build a handgun out of it. So far, I have not done anything that could remotely be a crime and I am now a California resident in possession of a firearm which I legally purchased in CA but, I happen to have it out of state. Now, is there any law which prevents me from bringing my legally owned/properly configured firearm back to Ca with me? I say, "NO!" I can bring in my legally owned handgun and not even have to register it with DOJ since, I already prchased and owned it in Ca.

Since I now have confirmation from ATF that I can assemble a Ca DROSed stripped lower into a handgun without violating federal law, can someone please point out a Ca law which would stop me from doing this? If I take the stripped receiver out of state, any issues with Ca DROS system wouldn't even apply when I assembled it. So, what would keep me from bringing it back into Ca? Is the DROS system really so flawed that it is easier to get a legal non-rostered and legally non registered handgun in Ca than DROSing and registering the same gun as a handgun at the initial time of purchase?

[alex00]

While I agree with your logic, I don't think the location of assembly will change the fact that in the eyes of California, you assembled a handgun from a rifle. Nevermind the fact that the DROS only describes 'long guns', a term not found in the Penal Code. I think building a pistol off a stripped lower is perfectly legal, but I am not a lawyer, and there are plenty of people that disagree with me.

[Carnivore]

I could be wrong (most likely am) but I thought stripped lowers in CA were DROSed as "other" not hand gun or riffle. Since it was purchased as a "other" in California you can not them make it a hand gun here. It has to start out as a hand gun. Again could have it back words and most likely do.

I mean it more as in intent thing like buying a legal hi-cap mag rebuild kit and then assembling it. It is illegal as heck and no one should ever do it but people with no regard to the law would find a way to justify it in their minds.

[CSACANNONEER]

While I agree with your logic, I don't think the location of assembly will change the fact that in the eyes of California, you assembled a handgun from a rifle. Nevermind the fact that the DROS only describes 'long guns', a term not found in the Penal Code. I think building a pistol off a stripped lower is perfectly legal, but I am not a lawyer, and there are plenty of people that disagree with me.

But, it has never been assembled as a rifle! If Ca wants insists that DROS would make it a "rifle" then, taking it out of state and building it would mean that Ca law would not be an issue at that time. So, can I bring my perfectly legal handgun back into the state with me?

I could be wrong (most likely am) but I thought stripped lowers in CA were DROSed as "other" not hand gun or riffle. Since it was purchased as a "other" in California you can not them make it a hand gun here. It has to start out as a hand gun. Again could have it back words and most likely do.

I mean it more as in intent thing like buying a legal hi-cap mag rebuild kit and then assembling it. It is illegal as heck and no one should ever do it but people with no regard to the law would find a way to justify it in their minds.

The DROS system is flawed and does not allow for "other". The 4473, a federal form, does. I don't see the corallation with rebuild kits. I can't find anywhere in Ca law that would prohibit me from importing a firearm which I already legally own in this state.

[wildhawker]

While I agree with your logic, I don't think the location of assembly will change the fact that in the eyes of California, you assembled a handgun from a rifle. Nevermind the fact that the DROS only describes 'long guns', a term not found in the Penal Code. I think building a pistol off a stripped lower is perfectly legal, but I am not a lawyer, and there are plenty of people that disagree with me.

Our analysis would indicate that a pistol assembled from a stripped receiver DROSed as a long gun would not be a SBR or SBS. However, I strongly urge people *do not* test this until we've settled this with ATF and DOJ.

[Andy Taylor]

Why not just DROS it as a single shot handgun, then remove the sled?

[CSACANNONEER]

Wildhawker,

Do you ever see DOJ making an official ruling on this? I don't. As far as ATF is concerned, the supervisor that we were speaking with made it clear to us that Ca DROS doesn't mean a thing to Federal law. So, the easy half of the battle is over. So, if I go out of state and assemble a Ca legal handgun from a stripped lower, would I have to register it as a handgun if I bring it back? I can't find any law stating that I would since, I already owned it in Ca.

[xenophobe]

While I agree with your logic, I don't think the location of assembly will change the fact that in the eyes of California, you assembled a handgun from a rifle. Nevermind the fact that the DROS only describes 'long guns', a term not found in the Penal Code. I think building a pistol off a stripped lower is perfectly legal, but I am not a lawyer, and there are plenty of people that disagree with me.

That's a federal distinction not a state one. As the receiver was bare and was never assembled into either configuration, making it a pistol, regardless if it was DROS'd as a long gun isn't a federal concern. ATF says it is fine.

The pistol would need to be registered with the state. I believe it is a misdemeanor to have an unregistered handgun in possession. The only potential trouble here is with the DOJ.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

...The pistol would need to be registered with the state. I believe it is a misdemeanor to have an unregistered handgun in possession.

There is no crime in possessing an unregistered handgun, unless you are doing something else illegal with the handgun.

CalDOJ could argue that you'd fit the legal definition of "personal handgun importer" and would be required to register the handgun within 60 days of "moving" to California with it.

[Librarian]

That's a federal distinction not a state one. As the receiver was bare and was never assembled into either configuration, making it a pistol, regardless if it was DROS'd as a long gun isn't a federal concern. ATF says it is fine.

The pistol would need to be registered with the state. I believe it is a misdemeanor to have an unregistered handgun in possession. The only potential trouble here is with the DOJ.

Not in general - it is not required that a handgun be registered. That they are registered through DROS or self-reporting is a different issue. Not all handguns in CA have gone through one of those processes.

[B Strong]

Wildhawker,

Do you ever see DOJ making an official ruling on this? I don't. As far as ATF is concerned, the supervisor that we were speaking with made it clear to us that Ca DROS doesn't mean a thing to Federal law. So, the easy half of the battle is over. So, if I go out of state and assemble a Ca legal handgun from a stripped lower, would I have to register it as a handgun if I bring it back? I can't find any law stating that I would since, I already owned it in Ca.

The problem as I see it is that the California Penal Code is the controling legal authority in this instance, not ATF.

The wise men have decided we have a Safe Handgun Roster and and a set of AW laws.

The feds don't care a whit about either.

The same wise men have only two descriptive options on the DROS.

So, you buy a stripped lower. We know that the lower isn't in the system because longs aren't registered.

You remove the lower from the state, build as a pistol, properly configured.

For whatever reason, that pistol becomes an issue, and the wise men can't find it in the system, and from there on, it lawyers and money time.

I'm not an attorney, but I think that the gray area here is big enough for me to want to avoid it, personally.

There are enough pistol lowers available from out-of-state dealers who'll help us, all at what I view as a reasonable cost, to make me inclined to wait for the California wise men to get their thumbs out and decide what the law means.

[xenophobe]

Not in general - it is not required that a handgun be registered. That they are registered through DROS or self-reporting is a different issue. Not all handguns in CA have gone through one of those processes.

There is no crime in possessing an unregistered handgun, unless you are doing something else illegal with the handgun.

Ok, then there is no real issue.

CalDOJ could argue that you'd fit the legal definition of "personal handgun importer" and would be required to register the handgun within 60 days of "moving" to California with it.

But he is already a resident so it doesn't apply. We had that discussion a few years back here, I forget the outcome of it though.

[CSACANNONEER]

There is no crime in possessing an unregistered handgun, unless you are doing something else illegal with the handgun.

CalDOJ could argue that you'd fit the legal definition of "personal handgun importer" and would be required to register the handgun within 60 days of "moving" to California with it.

Yea, I'm torn here since, I would already legally own it in CA. But, even if I had to pay a second "tax" (not sure if this is something that Ca could legally insist that I do) to bring back a gun that I already DROSed once, it would allow me to assemble the exact handgun I wanted and not pay a few hundred dollar premium for someone else to do it for me.

[wildhawker]

Wildhawker,

Do you ever see DOJ making an official ruling on this? I don't. As far as ATF is concerned, the supervisor that we were speaking with made it clear to us that Ca DROS doesn't mean a thing to Federal law. So, the easy half of the battle is over. So, if I go out of state and assemble a Ca legal handgun from a stripped lower, would I have to register it as a handgun if I bring it back? I can't find any law stating that I would since, I already owned it in Ca.

CSA: They are going to have to, soon.

B Strong: The only reason I mention ATF is that we're simply not absolutely sure that the state's determination has no effect-by-reverse on the firearm's federal disposition. We don't think it does, but until we can tie up both sides, there is no way to answer "absolutely not".

[jtmkinsd]

But, it has never been assembled as a rifle!

You can prove this?

DOJ will say, "You DROSed it as a long gun."

You'll say, "Only because the DROS system doesn't give me a choice."

They'll say, "Why didn't you DROS it as a handgun?"

You'll say, "Because I'm not exempt and I cant DROS a receiver as a handgun because it would be an unsafe handgun."

They'll say, "So you manufactured an unsafe handgun while out of State and brought it back into CA?"

You'll say "I'd like to speak to my attorney now."

Totally hypothetical...but again...wanna be the test case? Be my guest.