Gun Sale Denied by Owner of Gun Shop

[dfletcher]

He's not my hubby. I'm a widow. In that manner I don't have to ask for permission or beg for forgiveness. I like it that way. I'm also smart enough to know that there is a third party impartial forum (called the courts) who can rule on these things. My guy can hire his own attorney to deal with his issues and I'll take up my own. I'll be seeing an attorney next week to see if I have a discrimination case. I'll keep y'all posted. Thanks for the opinions.

I read all your posts. This is just my opinion, but rom what you wrote, I believe you went to the gun store to purchase the firearm because the first "buyer" was denied - that is rather clear and actually, none of your posts state otherwise. Your friend had more than "an interest" in the gun - he attempted to purchase the gun. Parsing words does not, I think, help your explanation.

Just as the first buyer was unaware and surprised by the denial, I am supposing you were surprised by the "straw purchase" law. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm supposing you went inside the store together, discussed his denial and in some fashion you said "well, since he can't buy it I will". This is, for better or worse, exactly the type of situation the straw purchase laws are designed to prohibit and I presume why the gun store owner denied the purchase. I would have done likewise.

[camsoup]

He's not my hubby. I'm a widow. In that manner I don't have to ask for permission or beg for forgiveness. I like it that way. I'm also smart enough to know that there is a third party impartial forum (called the courts) who can rule on these things. My guy can hire his own attorney to deal with his issues and I'll take up my own. I'll be seeing an attorney next week to see if I have a discrimination case. I'll keep y'all posted. Thanks for the opinions.

The shop as a right "to refuse service to anyone"

How can it be discrimination?

[LuckyEnough]

I think you're seeing it from the inside and failing to look at what you were trying to accomplish from the outside.
Your boyfriend tried to buy a gun and was denied due to a felony conviction, right? Then you went down to the LGS to buy the gun since he couldn't, right? Now you're saying it was to buy it for yourself and not for him.
Either way you're trying to do something illegal.
A straw purchase for him is illegal and owning a gun in the same home is illegal as well if my understanding of the law is correct.

Just because you feel it's wrong to punish you because of your boyfriends past mistakes is wrong doesn't disavow the legality of the situation.

As others have suggested, contact a lawyer and find out what you can do to either expunge your boyfriends record, or else find out if you are currently commiting a crime by having guns in the same house as a felon.

Thank you for at least the inklimg of understanding that I do feel that I was being "punished" unfairly. Some of your conclusions and others are not correct however. Starting with , he's not a felon! He had a restraining order issued by a vindictive ex that garnered a misdemeanor and didn't even know about any of this stuff concerning a gun purchase. He's a white collar professional that got blindsided by a law that is now penalizing him for LIFE for an accusation that a judge said "well, to be on the safe side I'm leaving a temp restraining order in place". BAM! Guilty. Yes, he'll have to get an attorney to try to straighten it out. As to the rest of what some of you are saying: My guns are locked up in a safe in MY HOME. I'd like to see someone try to charge me for anything that I've done wrong. As a matter of fact, my guy still didn't have an inkling of what the problem was until I researched it on the web tonight. Right through today we thought it was probably because he had security clearances. (Yes he's actually has had access to sensitive sites. So pretty far from a real criminal.) At most he maybe could be accused of being clueless but that's a different matter. The guy at the gun store said he had had similar problems with security clearances so we thought it was nothing. In any case, everything we did and every contact with that shop was totally in the open and above board. We didn't do anything to try to pull the wool over anyone's eyes (like some kind of nefarious plot) nor even begin to think that there was an appearance of impropriety. It was discussed with the guy at the gun shop that I would be purchasing the gun days ago (to not lose it) and were told that would be fine! To come on in! We drove out of our way to do so (again, it's a rather a unique gun) and only when mid-way into the purchase did it come to a screeching halt with an announcement that it was adjudged to be wrong. For whoever said jokingly that I should have gone to the shop by myself, no truer statement ever could have been made. We literally had no idea that there was anything wrong in me opting to buy the gun. That was the shock of it all. All this communication out in the open and transpiring for days and then all of a sudden I'm told in the gun shop that it won't be sold to me. The look on my face was enough to say it all. I didn't knowingly do anything wrong, stand by my right to purchase a gun and will only be generous enough in my assessment to say that the whole thing was badly mishandled by the gun shop from start to finish. That is the truth, the whole truth whether some of you want to believe it or not. That I have been impacted by something that I have nothing to do with is clearly unfair, but I'm the first to admit that no one ever said that it always would be. By his actions the gun shop owner basically implied that I'm a dishonest person attempting to engage in a crime and perhaps that is the sting I'm feeling because anyone that knows me would attest that there simply isn't anything farther from the truth. I ALWAYS play by the rules.

[silversix]

I don't have to ask for permission or beg for forgiveness.

You're not really a guy are you?

[LuckyEnough]

I read all your posts. This is just my opinion, but rom what you wrote, I believe you went to the gun store to purchase the firearm because the first "buyer" was denied - that is rather clear and actually, none of your posts state otherwise. Your friend had more than "an interest" in the gun - he attempted to purchase the gun. Parsing words does not, I think, help your explanation.

Just as the first buyer was unaware and surprised by the denial, I am supposing you were surprised by the "straw purchase" law. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm supposing you went inside the store together, discussed his denial and in some fashion you said "well, since he can't buy it I will". This is, for better or worse, exactly the type of situation the straw purchase laws are designed to prohibit and I presume why the gun store owner denied the purchase. I would have done likewise.

Thank you for the intelligent post which I appreciate. It didn't go exactly as you guess, but pretty close. Please read my post which explained more fully how it did go. The part you got right, was the surprise. No denial of his being able to do the purchase nor any comment of "ok, so I'll do it" was ever spoken at the gun store as they had basically approved the transaction before we ever came in. I certainly would not have made the trip to be denied and thought the 10 day approavl process would be in place. No one is denying that he tried to purchase the gun. I just feel it was my right to purchase it when he couldn't. If the gun store has brought up this issue earlier it never would have gotten to this place and that is perhaps why it is so upsetting to me.

[Ape]

Thank you for at least the inklimg of understanding that I do feel that I was being "punished" unfairly. Some of your conclusions and others are not correct however. Starting with , he's not a felon! He had a restraining order issued by a vindictive ex that garnered a misdemeanor and didn't even know about any of this stuff concerning a gun purchase. He's a white collar professional that got blindsided by a law that is now penalizing him for LIFE for an accusation that a judge said "well, to be on the safe side I'm leaving a temp restraining order in place". BAM! Guilty. Yes, he'll have to get an attorney to try to straighten it out. As to the rest of what some of you are saying: My guns are locked up in a safe in MY HOME. I'd like to see someone try to charge me for anything that I've done wrong. As a matter of fact, my guy still didn't have an inkling of what the problem was until I researched it on the web tonight. Right through today we thought it was probably because he had security clearances. (Yes he's actually has had access to sensitive sites. So pretty far from a real criminal.) At most he maybe could be accused of being clueless but that's a different matter. The guy at the gun store said he had had similar problems with security clearances so we thought it was nothing. In any case, everything we did and every contact with that shop was totally in the open and above board. We didn't do anything to try to pull the wool over anyone's eyes (like some kind of nefarious plot) nor even begin to think that there was an appearance of impropriety. It was discussed with the guy at the gun shop that I would be purchasing the gun days ago (to not lose it) and were told that would be fine! To come on in! We drove out of our way to do so (again, it's a rather a unique gun) and only when mid-way into the purchase did it come to a screeching halt with an announcement that it was adjudged to be wrong. For whoever said jokingly that I should have gone to the shop by myself, no truer statement ever could have been made. We literally had no idea that there was anything wrong in me opting to buy the gun. That was the shock of it all. All this communication out in the open and transpiring for days and then all of a sudden I'm told in the gun shop that it won't be sold to me. The look on my face was enough to say it all. I didn't knowingly do anything wrong, stand by my right to purchase a gun and will only be generous enough in my assessment to say that the whole thing was badly mishandled by the gun shop from start to finish. That is the truth, the whole truth whether some of you want to believe it or not. That I have been impacted by something that I have nothing to do with is clearly unfair, but I'm the first to admit that no one ever said that it always would be. By his actions the gun shop owner basically implied that I'm a dishonest person attempting to engage in a crime and perhaps that is the sting I'm feeling because anyone that knows me would attest that there simply isn't anything farther from the truth. I ALWAYS play by the rules.

Again, I can understand your frustration and I appreciate the fact that you felt that you weren't trying to do anything illegal. But unfortunately the laws set in place made it (at bare minimum) appear as if you were.

Chalk the whole thing up to a learning experience and get things straightened out. Then stick around CG (and/or the many other gun forums available) and keep yourself informed to the many confusing, and sometimes unfortunate, gun legislation out there.

[slowxturtle]

All very knowledgeable, respectful, and rational responses to the OP.

No shoes, No Shirt, No Service.

[LuckyEnough]

You're not really a guy are you?

Surely, you jest? Do you know any guy that talks like this. The original sin was probably man teaching woman to speak (at least from the male point of view). I've worked in construction for about a million years and therefore, know men better then women. I tend to have some of the same opinions and after 30 years of marriage and now being a merry widow I found that I like the freedom to do as I please. That includes driving a Harley Davidson Truck, owning a boat with a Corvette engine, paying my own way and calling my own shots. It's attractive to most men!

[slowxturtle]

You do sound like a straight arrow with intelligence, so I'm sorry you have to deal with this now. However, you cannot fault the gun store for suspecting a straw man purchase. If you were the gun store owner and you were responsible for the sale of every gun in that store, would you sell a gun to a customer in your situation?

[silversix]

I'm just surprised that you would know that inside joke in regards to purchasing firearms and dealing with the spouse while at the same time being completely clueless about straw purchases.

Also, the fact that this line is often used by guys complaining about the nagging wife/GF. I find it odd that a woman would make such a comment. Besides, what real guy would complain that his significant other has way too much guns?

[blindluck]

Ignorance of the law is not an alibi for innocence. However, NOBODY knows all of the laws. Hopefully the "sting" from the implication of conspiring to commit an illegal act will be lessened when considering the pain felt after being found guilty of (unknowingly) completing that same act.

Issues of legality are best addressed with legal counsel. Good luck with your next course of action.

[battleship]

I know its a bit off topic, but by any chance you can tell us just what type of gun this was, coz i just gotz to know.

[Aleksei Vasiliev]

If he is a prohibited person and you buy a gun for him, you are guilty of a felony.

Wrong.

If you buy a gun for anybody, you are guilty of a felony. It doesn't matter if they're allowed to own the gun or not.

(not sure if anybody corrected you yet)

[LuckyEnough]

I know this makes no difference, but you gotta tell us what handgun we're talking about here...

To the OP,
if you indeed keep your "guy" from having access to your firearms AND are really wanting to buy this gun for yourself, WHY did you walk into the shop with him?
if you had shown up there on your own, you know they would have sold it to you, right?

since this is such a great investment opportunity, just have a family member buy the handgun and hold it in THEIR collection until a time in the future when your "guy's" record is expunged and he can again enjoy his 2nd amendment rights.
at that point in time, go to your local ffl and complete a PPT.

i'm hoping everything i'm suggesting is above board.

To answer your question, I keep everyone from having access to my safes and all that is contained in them, including the guns. That isn't specifically for them although it turns out to have been a good move on my part given the current situation. Remember, I'm not married and that means I don't have to share everything or anything if I don't chose to. I walked into the shop with him because I didn't have a clue that I was going to be accused of doing something wrong. I really resent some of the "holier than thou" opinions of some of the replies accusing me of attempting to do something illegal. That wasn't the case. That I showed up at the gun store with him is a pretty good indication that I didn't begin to think there was a problem let alone trying to commit a illegal transaction. And no, I didn't dream of walking in the store alone and that I could have purchased it because afterall we were told beforehand to come on down and that it was being sold to me. Why was I to think there was a problem? Far from it. You can accuse me of being naive, but nothing more than that. Furthermore, I would never ask anyone in my family or otherwise to get involved in buying a gun for me or anyone else. I don't need to for one, and duh, I know the law. He didn't ask me to buy it and he wouldn't have. As stupid as it sounds I decided to originally to try to meet the next level of rewards on my friggin' credit card and that would have about got me there. (An investment is an investment. Gotta find something else I guess . ) I'll be honest enough to say that maybe someday it would have been a gift, certainly maybe an inheritance to someone but if that had ever occurred then it would have been transferred legally OR NOT AT ALL REMAINING MINE. I stated in another post, I PLAY by the rules TOTALLY. I'm about as conservative and law abiding as they come for those who are chiding me as being a lawbreaker and looking for sympathy. Nah. I've got all your opinions registering loud and clear and my momma didn't have no idiot for a child. If it makes you all feel better, tomorrow I'll be calmer about the situation for all your input. So have an open mind and realize that the gun shop got no new information today that it couldn't have acted on days ago and for those of you who run own or work for gun shops maybe you can see that they could have handled the whole thing differently and saved us a trip and an angry lady from posting on the calguns site.

[blakdawg]

I had something very disturbing happen to me today and wanted to get others opinions. I am a woman who has a significant other who had a domestic violence misdemeanor from about ten years ago. The restaining order was an act of retaliation from a broken up relationship. ... When I came home tonight and started researching DOJ reasons for firearms possession and ban I found that my guy is banned FOR LIFE from possessing or buying a firearm because of that restraining order. He is absolutely speechless over something that he had no idea was transpiring at the time of the misdemeanor. There was no proof of any harassment or threat from him to this person and the judge said that "to play it safe, he was leaving the restraining order in place but there was no ramification to him to do this".

You seem to be using "misdemeanor" and "restraining order" as if they meant the same thing. They do not.

A misdemeanor conviction would have occurred because your SO plead guilty in a criminal proceeding or was found guilty following a trial.

A restraining order is typically issued in a civil court - in California, the restraining order cannot issue based on "no proof". It may be that you or your SO don't find the evidence credible, but to issue an RO without supporting testimony or an affidavit would be a very basic procedural error which is very, very unlikely.

It seems to me the first thing you need to do is to figure out exactly what happened 10 years ago.