Can dealer deny PTP DROS?

[HighValleyRanch]

Please clarify on some questions that came up.

1.First, I see that the dealer can only charge 45.00 for PTP transfer in the store for private sales. 35.00 for the DROS and only 10.00 max for his share.
Is this correct, he can't charge more?

2. Can a dealer refuse to do the PTP transfer for any reasons, if it is legit and legal? Because he is too busy or does not want to bother for the low cost, or doesn't know the parties involved. Is he obligated as a dealer to do any walk in PTP transfers? I mean, he is only able to make 10.00 over the cost with all the paperwork.

3. If purchasing a firearm from out of state shipped to my local FFL, can he then charge any amount over the cost of the DROS for the handling, or is he limited to a set max amount.

4. Does the 30 day period for a second DROS start from the first day of paperwork or ten days later on the pickup date?

Thanks

[geeknow]

Please clarify on some questions that came up.

1.First, I see that the dealer can only charge 45.00 for PTP transfer in the store for private sales. 35.00 for the DROS and only 10.00 max for his share.
Is this correct, he can't charge more?

2. Can a dealer refuse to do the PTP transfer for any reasons, if it is legit and legal? Because he is too busy or does not want to bother for the low cost, or doesn't know the parties involved. Is he obligated as a dealer to do any walk in PTP transfers? I mean, he is only able to make 10.00 over the cost with all the paperwork.

3. If purchasing a firearm from out of state shipped to my local FFL, can he then charge any amount over the cost of the DROS for the handling, or is he limited to a set max amount.

4. Does the 30 day period for a second DROS start from the first day of paperwork or ten days later on the pickup date?

Thanks

Answers.
1. The legal limit for ppt's is $35.00 total.
2. If they are an FFL, they have to do ppt's as part of the deal. They cant refuse, but the can stall/drag their feet if they want to be a douche.
3. dealer to dealer transfers...the FFL can charge whatever they want.
4. the '30 days' clock starts ticking when you start your first DROS.

have fun.

[HighValleyRanch]

Thanks, but....

Thanks Geeknow,
but I just came across this for the CA DOJ FAQ:

While no limitation exists for the number of handguns that you may own,you are generally limited to purchasing no more than one handgun in any 30-day period. Handgun transactions related to law enforcement, private party transfers, returns to owners, and certain other specific circumstances are exempt from the one-handgun-per-30-day limit.

And my memory says something in there that PTP are exempt from the one gun a month requirement. Is that true, so I can have two PTP DROS within a 30 day period?

Had one gun on layaway at one gun shop, which was a consignment sale at the local shop.
Put money down and ready to close, but in the mean time, I found a deal too good to pass, and purchased another gun PTP at another dealer and started the DROS on 11/10/10.
And then I want to purchase a new from the second dealer who did the PTP transfer. So what are my options. Can I go ahead and close the deal on the layaway (consignment....is that PTP?) and then in a couple of weeks purchase the new gun, or will that many concurrent DROS be a problem?

[E Pluribus Unum]

Dealers can refuse PPTs for guns they do not normally carry.

For example, if they do not want to mess with the handgun crap and choose not to sell handguns, they don't have to.

I contacted the DOJ when I wanted my OLL PPT'd and all the local shops refused, they told me that if the shop does not chose to deal with Off List Lowers, they can refuse my transfer.

[geeknow]

Thanks Geeknow,
but I just came across this for the CA DOJ FAQ:



And my memory says something in there that PTP are exempt from the one gun a month requirement. Is that true, so I can have two PTP DROS within a 30 day period?

Had one gun on layaway at one gun shop, which was a consignment sale at the local shop.
Put money down and ready to close, but in the mean time, I found a deal too good to pass, and purchased another gun PTP at another dealer and started the DROS on 11/10/10.
And then I want to purchase a new from the second dealer who did the PTP transfer. So what are my options. Can I go ahead and close the deal on the layaway (consignment....is that PTP?) and then in a couple of weeks purchase the new gun, or will that many concurrent DROS be a problem?

you are correct. sorry, thought you were talking about 'dealer sales'. your HSC limits you to one 'dealer purchase' per 30 calendar days. this applies to handguns (new or used) that are purchased from a dealer. there is no limit to the amount of PPT's that you can do in a 30day period.

if i read correctly, you bought gun #1 from a dealer, and want to purchase gun #2 from a private party..? if so, then you are good to go.

have fun.

[bwiese]

Answers.
1. The legal limit for ppt's is $35.00 total.
2. If they are an FFL, they have to do ppt's as part of the deal. They cant refuse, but the can stall/drag their feet if they want to be a douche.
3. dealer to dealer transfers...the FFL can charge whatever they want.
4. the '30 days' clock starts ticking when you start your first DROS.

Good quick summary. A few add'l notes:

... a CA FFL can deny xfers of handguns if he doens't sell handguns (Big5).
He cannot deny transfers of long guns and he can't say PPTs are limited to every 2nd Thursday between 7AM-10AM if his shop is open the rest of the week.

Also, the 30 day clock for "one new resale handgun a month" is not affected by acquiring other handguns via PPT, consignment, inheritance, intrafamily transfer or other operation of law.

[HighValleyRanch]

clarification

I'll post this, so that if someone else comes up in the same boat, they will have the information.

1. partial funds put down on layaway gun #1. Transaction not completed.
Consignment, so I just found out from a dealer that is considered same as a new sale or dealer sale, even though it is consignment.

2. Purchase gun #2 on PTP, so the 30 DROS limit for purchase has not really applied yet. Private sale and usual ten day wait for pickup.

3. Want to purchase gun #3, new gun from dealer on transaction 2.

4. (What i found out) I can go ahead and close the deal on layaway gun #1(consignment) or purchase immediately gun #3 (new gun) and either one will start the 30 day limit DROS. I don't have to wait until the PTP dros has the 30 days, but will have to choose between the consignment or new gun and then wait 30 days until after that to purchase the other.

"Too many guns and too few a days, and too little money!"
Not rich, just selling stuff to fill out my collection!

[HighValleyRanch]

Also, the 30 day clock for "one new resale handgun a month" is not affected by acquiring other handguns via PPT, consignment, inheritance, intrafamily transfer or other operation of law.

Thanks Bill,
but I called dealer #2 that just did the transfer and he told me that consignments in the store are considered same as new, and they have the 30 day limit requirement. This conflicts with the consignment you stated above?

Is he wrong?

[Shady]

so when gun world in burbank

denied to do a ppt for me with a bb installed lower

they were in violation because they sell them?


they told me

"we dont know that you didnt just get back from robbing a bank with high cap mags in that thing, "

" we do not ppt oll's that are not purchased from us , store policy "


I was shocked


but then I realized


Im in a gun store.....

[CHS]

2. Purchase gun #2 on PTP, so the 30 DROS limit for purchase has not really applied yet. Private sale and usual ten day wait for pickup.

PTP. You keep saying this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Are you talking about a PPT, where PPT means (P)rivate-(P)arty (T)ransfer?

[HighValleyRanch]

PTP=person to person (in the flesh)
FTF=face to face
PPT=private party transfer

All the same, and yes you may be literally right, but look on the CAL GUN ads and they are reference all the time all those ways.

[jtmkinsd]

Little bit of confusion in this thread...As was stated, we must offer Private Party Transfers (PPT). We can refuse PPT's for the reasons stated, and also limit the availability of the transfers to certain hours/days as was also stated. Consignments are processed as PPT's, unless we ship the gun to another FFL. But if you walk in, buy a gun on consignment, it should be processed as a PPT.

Now, going into a shop and telling them they are wrong or breaking the law is not going to get you anywhere fast...if you disagree with them, calmly tell them why...it should be a civil negotiation...not a cross-examination. If they are busy at the time, you're likely to irritate them quicker...so be prepared to either come back at a more convenient time, or take your business elsewhere.

[CavTrooper]

If you find a shop breaking the laws on PPTs, its best to go in every day and attempt to do a PPT (the right way). Every time they deny you, call the DOJ.

Having an FFL requires one to provide specific services at specific rates as outlined in the law, if a shop doesnt want to abide by the law, they can find another line of business.

[BigDogatPlay]

Speaking as the other half of the private party transfer in this situation (and thanks again High Valley Ranch for a smooth deal), my understanding is that only new sales fall into the "one gun per 30 day" rule.

You can do as many Private Party Transfers as you can afford. I've PPTed multiple handguns as a buyer on the same transaction more than once and it works just fine with only a bit more paperwork. I pick up all on the DROS ten calendar days later. I've piggybacked a consignment purchase with a PPT on the same transaction as well and it works just fine.

My opinion is that you should be able to start DROS on that new item in the case anytime you want. You actually should have been able to DROS both on the same transaction you and I did the other day.

Once again, the vagueness, senselessness and hyperbole of California's gun laws are on display.

[HighValleyRanch]

Thanks BigDogatplay,
Glad it did go smoothly, but I think only because I had a good relationship to begin with the dealer.
But that brought up the questions I brought forth, had I not known them.

There was a moment when I thought that they were going to make me come back another day.

I think that shops should post their policies regarding the appointments or hours for everyone to see.

But being wiser these days, i find it easier to just do what the shop dictates and try to fit in rather than trying to change their policies. With so few gun shops around these parts, you can't afford to burn any bridges.

But it always helps to know the law.
Thanks again, bigdog for the Colt. Looking forward to picking it up, and I will get that bearcat when the money tree is ripe!
HVR