Hayward gun buyback event: Saturday 10am-3pm, south Hayward BART station

[ryang]

The way it is promoted to the public, deliberately by the police to the media is "guns are bad" and whether they soft soap it at the scene is not important.

This goes into intent versus result. Much like gun control people probably believe they have good intent but we perceive what they do has a harmful result.

Ignoring the intent (which I agree is shakey at best) I believe there are good results that come from buybacks. I didn't think that way before but with an open mind I was able see some value.

1. Let's say you have a sawed off weapon. You can't legally sell it and honest gunsmiths won't want to touch it to make it legal. Better to take it to a gun buyback than sell it to a gangbanger.
2. Same applies to a stolen weapon. And there's a bonus where the legal owner might get it back.
3. Weapons that you don't want and finding a buyer is too much hassle. There were lots of bolt action shotguns, shoddy pistols none of us would want to own/shoot, rusted stuff and general junk. No one wants it and even though it can't be easily traced back (a lot were made before serial numbers) you can't just throw it in the trash. Gun buybacks are a great way to dispose of them and most of the weapons turned in fit this category.
4. Irresponsible owners. There was one lady who turned in a loaded .22 rifle. She thought it was unloaded but never bothered to check. She told a story of how her husband had a ND in their house with it and almost hit her. People like this should not own firearms. I'm glad she doesn't since people like this give gun owners a bad image.
5. It's a good way to safely dispose of inoperable firearms and unwanted ammo. They don't get money for them, but Joe Average doesn't have a convenient way to properly destroy an inoperable firearm. And old ammo that's been sitting in a closet is stuff no one wants to use.

[ryang]

why was a photo op of 'sensational' items staged on the tailgate of a government-owned camper shell pickup truck?
Cherry-picking the 'evil looking guns' is about as political as it gets.

Sorry but your personal bias is showing here. "Sensational" is not equal to "evil looking". Unless you consider a rusted out blackpowder Kentucky rifle evil looking. It was more "let's pick out the widest assortment of stuff to show the range of items that were turned in".

You might be making too large an assumption that they were cherry picked and not brought in by the police for display purposes.

More personal bias, this time with tinfoil.

[creekside]

Sorry but your personal bias is showing here. "Sensational" is not equal to "evil looking". Unless you consider a rusted out blackpowder Kentucky rifle evil looking. It was more "let's pick out the widest assortment of stuff to show the range of items that were turned in".

I did not see the items laid out on the tailgate. You picked the term 'sensational' for the items police chose to display. Who am I to disagree with your choice of words?

Also, I cheerfully admit personal bias and so should you, or why are you here? This is the 2nd Amendment forum, after all, and this is protected political speech and not an academic paper.

[dfletcher]

This goes into intent versus result. Much like gun control people probably believe they have good intent but we perceive what they do has a harmful result.

Ignoring the intent (which I agree is shakey at best) I believe there are good results that come from buybacks. I didn't think that way before but with an open mind I was able see some value.

Absent being able to look into the future, how can one with certainty see good results unless one agrees with the general principle that guns cause crime and eliminating them en masse is good? The individually turned in gun that "could have been used" badly might just as well been used to defend oneself and now absent that gun, one is injured.

I think the point of whether these guns are destroyed or not needs to be addressed. Hayward did buybacks in 07, 08 and 09 - I'd be curious to know how many guns were destroyed, how many were returned to their owners.

[stix213]

Damn wished I didn't miss this. I probably would have brought down my POS jam-o-matic GSG5, and told them the money was going toward a Sig 522

[ryang]

Absent being able to look into the future, how can one with certainty see good results unless one agrees with the general principle that guns cause crime and eliminating them en masse is good?

I do not believe guns cause crime. I do not believe eliminating them en masse is good. Nor do I believe gun buybacks reduce crime. Those may be the perceived intent of buybacks but I'm talking about actual results.

I do see good results from the buyback. It allows people who have firearms they no longer want and no one else is willing to buy to dispose of them. It allows people who are irresponsible with firearms to stop being irresponsible.

[ryang]

I probably would have brought down my POS jam-o-matic GSG5, and told them the money was going toward a Sig 522

Even as a jam-o-matic I'll buy your POS GSG5 for $50. Deal?

[N6ATF]

I do not believe guns cause crime. I do not believe eliminating them en masse is good. Nor do I believe gun buybacks reduce crime. Those may be the perceived intent of buybacks but I'm talking about actual results.

I do see good results from the buyback. It allows people who have firearms they no longer want and no one else is willing to buy to dispose of them. It allows people who are irresponsible with firearms to stop being irresponsible.

Were you there? Who's to say they were irresponsible? Were they handing them to the cops barrel first with fingers on triggers? I haven't read about any officer-involved shootings.

I'd rather have a thousand "irresponsible" law-abiding citizens with guns than telling criminals their job just got a thousand households safer.

[MidnightSon117]

So no need for micro-stamping anymore, since the evidence will be destroyed, no questions asked. We don't want to catch you, we want to pay you. Well done, HPD!

[MidnightSon117]

Oh one more thing, no questions asked on removed serial numbers? No Felony? Awesome, HPD can now violate Federal Law. Superlative, HPD!

[Milsurp Collector]

It was more like donating to Goodwill where people had stuff they didn't want any more and trying to sell it any other way was more trouble than it was worth.

Goodwill does not DESTROY every item that is donated to them. Goodwill makes a lot of money reselling items donated to them. Only if the item is unusable/unsellable is it DESTROYED. It is the wanton DESTRUCTION of firearms that might be valuable to someone that many here find objectionable.

You have admitted that these buybacks have zero effect on crime. The vast majority of firearms being turned in for DESTRUCTION (bolt-action rifles, rimfire rifles, old shotguns, Dan Wesson revolvers in presentation cases, etc. etc.) are not the types of firearms used in crimes, but they could be desirable as collector items or just as shooters. It's not the potential buyer/collector's fault that the owner is unmotivated or uninformed about better ways of disposing of their unwanted firearm, be it a valuable collector piece or just a humble but functional shooter. Law enforcement is in a unique position to create a win-win situation by facilitating the transfer of some of these firearms to new owners, but instead they work to advance the cause of people who wish all firearms would just disappear.

The percentage of collectible or valuable items might be small, but it is still nauseating and repulsive that any of them will be DESTROYED along with the "junk". Imagine some widow of a World War II vet bringing in her husband's war trophy original matching K98k, or Luger, or Arisaka to a buyback. They are just some old guns to her. The police will check the serial numbers, see that they aren't stolen, shrug their shoulders, and then toss them into the pile to be DESTROYED. Effect on crime or benefit to public safety: zero. Loss to collectors: significant. Collector piece or junk, they all meet the same fate: DESTRUCTION.

Prior to this event I had similar viewpoints. But the Hayward buyback changed my mind. I think the scenarios I described before are a real benefit.

As I said in the beginning, I used to think nothing good came out of gun buybacks. But now I think there is some good that comes out of them.

Police have a whole infrastructure for auctioning goods seized from criminals. Too bad law enforcement prefers to facilitate the DESTRUCTION of firearms that they could at least try to sell first before sending them to the smelter. It's a loss to shooters, a loss to collectors, a loss of income to law enforcement agencies, with minimal effects on crime or enhancement to public safety. All for a publicity stunt. That any fan of firearms could find these gun buybacks to be a good thing is very disappointing.

[joedogboy]

It's probably not worth the trip, but I've got an old .22LR I don't want anymore - if they are paying enough and they'll take out of towners. . .

You don't think you'd get $50 for it by selling it here?

[joedogboy]

I do see good results from the buyback. It allows people who have firearms they no longer want and no one else is willing to buy to dispose of them. It allows people who are irresponsible with firearms to stop being irresponsible.

And how does this manage to do this in a manner that selling it to a gun shop or PPTing it to a collector wouldn't?

I don't think that your "no one else is willing to buy" scenario is really applicable.

A more efficient method would be for the PD to perform the buybacks through local gun shops - the LEA would refer citizens to the gun shop, the gun shop would give $50 for a "worthless" firearm, and might give more for a firearm that they could sell. The gun shop could then periodically turn over the "worthless" firearms to the LEA and be reimbursed the $50.

In fact, I think that this should be the only way that LEAs should be able to do these buybacks - through a FFL with a brick and mortar business in the community (city/county).

Also, shouldn't the PD be paying PPT fees and DEROS fees for each of these guns, unless they hold an FFL and business license?

[MyMalteseFalcon]

Gee, Maybe I should show up waving a handful of money in my hand so I can attract ppl into selling me their "unwanted guns"...

Hell of a way to pick up clunkers, strip 'em down and sell off the parts!

One would never know what's out there that's "unwanted"!!!

[Ibgreezy]

I wonder if anybody ever brought in any assult weapons?