Perm attaching of muzzle devices ?

[rero360]

[dantodd]

I am not sure but a DIYer might be in big trouble if they are in possession of a 14.5" upper along with a lower. I believe that would be constructive possession of an SBR.

[bwiese]

As we all know silver soldering and pinning then welding the pin head in place are legally accepted methods to permanently attach a muzzle device for barrels less than 16" to bring them up to the legal 16" length.

My question is: What about Loctite? Specifically the Red 271 formula, this is taken directly from their websight...

I have great fear that 'something' could happen - problems with application, cracking after multiple thermal cycling, etc. I wonder how well it holds with a breaker bar applied, etc.

Do you really want felony risk at both Fed and state levels to save a few bucks gunsmithing?

The pinned/welded etc. method of affixing a barrel extension passes the test of time and has BATF approval.

When there's felony risk it's best to stick to acknowledged nonproblematic recipes.

This would give the DIYers who don't have access to a welder an ability to build a 14.5" upper and affix the brake themselves easily.

I sure as hell hope those DIYers don't already possess a rifle lower or rifle if they have that shorty barrel (and don't already own an AR pistol).

[Decoligny]

[command_liner]

With a hand-held propane torch you can both silver solder and
braze weld. Just a few days ago I made new radials for an antenna
using stainless steel tubing and stainless steel bolts. I brazed the
bolts to the tubing using my propane torch. Sure, my torch is
a bit more serious than the $20 torch from Home Depot, but it
is still just a propane/air torch.

Stepping back in time, one can certainly use a charcoal fire to
get REALLY HOT. Sure, it takes a bit of planning, but all you
need is wood, clay and some manual labor.
Remember, the Egyptians were making liquid metals 5000 years ago.

[SJgunguy24]

Get it welded.

[SJgunguy24]

With a hand-held propane torch you can both silver solder and
braze weld. Just a few days ago I made new radials for an antenna
using stainless steel tubing and stainless steel bolts. I brazed the
bolts to the tubing using my propane torch. Sure, my torch is
a bit more serious than the $20 torch from Home Depot, but it
is still just a propane/air torch.

Stepping back in time, one can certainly use a charcoal fire to
get REALLY HOT. Sure, it takes a bit of planning, but all you
need is wood, clay and some manual labor.
Remember, the Egyptians were making liquid metals 5000 years ago.

Propane O2 torch is different then just propane. That set up gets close to MAPP gas.

[loather]

I've defeated red loctite with a cheater bar before. It takes a bit of muscle, but it can definitely be defeated. That said, I use it on my AR muzzle attachments when I want them to be semi-permanent, because i know i can break it if necessary.

[rero360]

I was just trying to think of out of the box, new solutions, I mean I've heard of countless Remington bolt handles being ripped off, those being silver soldered on.

What really got me thinking about it was the discussion going on about the legalities of different muzzle devices, how some are legal on featureless rifles while others are not, simply because they were not designed and marketed as having flash suppressing capabilities, whether they have them or not.

So here I am thinking, if the design and marketing makes the difference in a legal setting for muzzle brakes and compensators, why not some sort of threadlocking compound? So I looked up Loctite as thats the only type I know of, and low and behold they use the word permanent in their marketing. Granted with the ability of being defeated, but thats the case with welds as well.

Granted this is all purely what if and speculation on my part, just exercising the old noodle.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

You can just go to home depot and get a MAPP gas torch for what? $20? Why risk a felony?

[rero360]

Geez guys, whats so wrong with exercising the mind and thinking up potential new solutions to problems.

The way you guys are thinking, we'd still be writing everything by hand, that pesky printing press, why bother with something like that when you can use your own hand and a pen?

See what I'm getting at, if you are satisfied with the current norm and don't look to improve and advance, then society with stall, stagnate and become surpased by others, becoming no longer relevant. Granted the fate of America does not hang on the balance of finding a new method of attaching muzzle devices, but the drive and desire to explore and learn must be there for both.

Edison didn't create the light bulb with the mentality of "these oil lamps and candles are awsome"

[freonr22]

lorax3
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigcalidave
Anyone have a link for it ?

Sure. The section of the NFA handbook you need is here. The other sections are here.

From 2.1.3 Quote:
The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=249454

BTW, thats the first time I noticed the Apple logo on Lorax's avatar. I just assumed he was a cult member of some secret org

[Scotty]

If you don't prep the surfaces correctly, red Loctite can be easily removed.

[rero360]

Ah, but it says methods of attachment include, to me that does not mean the list given after is all inclusive, simply examples of acceptable types.

Look, I don't have the parts and the inclination to actually go this route, or even saying that it is a truely viable alternative path, I'm just saying why not think of additional methods, the more options there are the better in my mind. Thats mostly what this is all about as well, get the mind active, take a problem and think of non standard methods of solving the problem.

Heres another thought, how about the use of a substance that is a solid threadlocker, except when high voltage is passed thru it, then it becomes a semi fluid as long as the current is passing thru, once the electricity stops it becomes a solid again.

(patent pending)

[shark92651]

Geez guys, whats so wrong with exercising the mind and thinking up potential new solutions to problems.

The way you guys are thinking, we'd still be writing everything by hand, that pesky printing press, why bother with something like that when you can use your own hand and a pen?

See what I'm getting at, if you are satisfied with the current norm and don't look to improve and advance, then society with stall, stagnate and become surpased by others, becoming no longer relevant. Granted the fate of America does not hang on the balance of finding a new method of attaching muzzle devices, but the drive and desire to explore and learn must be there for both.

Edison didn't create the light bulb with the mentality of "these oil lamps and candles are awsome"

There is nothing wrong with thinking up new ideas, as long as those ideas can't land you in jail. I have seen a response letter from the ATF stating that "Industrial adhesive products are not an acceptable method for permanently attaching a muzzle device." Sorry, but it's not as simple as applying Loc-tite or Rocksett.