double edge blade. CA Legal?

[1JimMarch]

That knife isn't legal for street carry OR in-home ownership!

Not because it's double-edge - because it's non-metallic yet can still stab. They passed a special law some years back banning knives that can make it through metal detectors.

[Digital_Boy]

That knife isn't legal for street carry OR in-home ownership!

Not because it's double-edge - because it's non-metallic yet can still stab. They passed a special law some years back banning knives that can make it through metal detectors.

Re-read the product description, it's not non-metallic. Perfectly legal to own.

Partial quote from the LA Police Gear site:
"Hot forging is the reason the Sting is so tough. It begins life as an ordinary blank of 1050 carbon steel, similar to the alloy used in traditional Samurai swords, which is first hot forged and then precision ground into final shape."

[ke6guj]

That knife isn't legal for street carry OR in-home ownership!

Not because it's double-edge - because it's non-metallic yet can still stab. They passed a special law some years back banning knives that can make it through metal detectors.

you got a cite for that Jim? I recall PC that said that commercial sales were prohbited, but that possesion was not controlled.

OK, found a previous post of mine on the subject:

12001.1. (a) Any person in this state who commercially manufactures or causes to be commercially manufactured, or who knowingly imports into the state for commercial sale, keeps for commercial sale, or offers or exposes for commercial sale, any undetectable knife is guilty of a misdemeanor. As used in this section, an "undetectable knife" means any knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death that is commercially manufactured to be used as a weapon and is not detectable by a metal detector or magnetometer, either handheld or otherwise, that is set at standard calibration.
(b) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, commencing January 1, 2000, all knives or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death that are commercially manufactured in this state that utilize materials that are not detectable by a metal detector shall be manufactured to include materials that will ensure they are detectable by a metal detector or magnetometer, either handheld or otherwise, that is set at standard calibration.

(c) This section shall not apply to the manufacture or importation of undetectable knives for sale to a law enforcement or military entity nor shall this section apply to the subsequent sale of these knives to a law enforcement or military entity.

(d) This section shall not apply to the manufacture or importation of undetectable knives for sale to federal, state, and local historical societies, museums, and institutional collections which are open to the public, provided that the undetectable knives are properly housed and secured from unauthorized handling, nor shall this section apply to the subsequent sale of the knives to these societies, museums, and collections.

note that it only covers "who commercially manufactures or causes to be commercially manufactured, or who knowingly imports into the state for commercial sale, keeps for commercial sale, or offers or exposes for commercial sale". Personal importation, ownership, possession, etc are not restricted by that law.

[inbox485]

you got a cite for that Jim? I recall PC that said that commercial sales were prohbited, but that possesion was not controlled.

OK, found a previous post of mine on the subject:

note that it only covers "who commercially manufactures or causes to be commercially manufactured, or who knowingly imports into the state for commercial sale, keeps for commercial sale, or offers or exposes for commercial sale". Personal importation, ownership, possession, etc are not restricted by that law.

Basically that item isn't a knife at all so the number of edges is irrelevant. It is a dirk/dagger for the same reason a screwdriver can be. So 12020(a)(4) governs possession/carry.

The 12001.1 quote is what I was going to bring up. It is similar to the 12020 prohibition on hi-cap mags, but it is even less restrictive since it only covers commercial actions. So you can manufacture, import, etc. as long as it can't be considered a commercial action. A common solution is vendors will attach a big metal ring to the handle and if the end user takes it off, they are not violating the law since they are "manufacturing" as an individual not a commercial entity.

[Decoligny]

I think you're right. You can absolutely have a double edged knife, and this would presumably be a fixed blade, and therefore must be worn exposed.

Remember for the purposes of the dirk/dagger laws.....even a folder that is in the OPEN position in your pocket would be considered a dirk/dagger.

I'm open to correction as well, but this is what I know:

1. Double edged knife exposed = legal
2. Double edged knife concealed on your person = illegal
3. Single edge folder concealed = legal
4. Single edge folder, open, concealed = illegal

Correct if wrong....I don't want to be spreading FUD.

BTW - if you wear that boot knife actually tucked in your boot and thus concealed, I would think it would be illegal. LEGAL to own it though!

They do indeed make some double edged folders.



There are some that look "like" butterfly knives but are not really, that have double edges.

1. Double edged FIXED BLADE knife exposed = legal
2. Double edged FIXED BLADE knife concealed on your person = FELONY
3. Single edged FIXED BLADE knife exposed = legal
4. Single edged FIXED BLADE knife concealed on your person = FELONY
5. Single or Double edged folders carried either exposed or concealed = legal.
6. BE AWARE OF LOCAL ORDINANCES. In LA county for instance, carrying any knife 3" or longer exposed is a "public offense" i.e. a misdemeanor.

[CenterX]

Dye your hair gray and get a stout walking cane for protection and a small 2" gambit for slicing apples. This gets you beyond all of the legal knife concerns. - a stout cane rules a pocket knife.
Live long and prosper.

[sevensix2x51]

i gots one of them wannabe balisongs from cold steel. double edged folder, called the "triple action."

[ArtP88]

Its one of the oldest FUDs.... No idea where it came from, but people always ask if they are going to get in trouble owning one!

I can tell you where it possibly came from. In local police logs it's not uncommon to see a person arrested for "possession of a dirk or dagger". Without any details a fact like that can scare a normal guy and make him start to question whether his normal behavior (concealing a 7" fillet knife in camping gear), is indeed illegal.

Here's my question to the thread: Does the term "concealment", as used in this thread and CA law, stictly mean concealment on a person, or extend to concealment in camping gear, vehicle, possessions, tackle box, etc.?

[Quiet]

Regarding conceal carrying a fixed blade knife.

Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(4) Carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger.
(c)(24) As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.
(d) Knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer are not concealed within the meaning of this section.

[1JimMarch]

Sorry, I thought the whole thing was plastic. My bad.

[Librarian]

I can tell you where it possibly came from. In local police logs it's not uncommon to see a person arrested for "possession of a dirk or dagger". Without any details a fact like that can scare a normal guy and make him start to question whether his normal behavior (concealing a 7" fillet knife in camping gear), is indeed illegal.

Here's my question to the thread: Does the term "concealment", as used in this thread and CA law, stictly mean concealment on a person, or extend to concealment in camping gear, vehicle, possessions, tackle box, etc.?

Mostly it means 'on the person', but, for guns, 'on the person' also means in a bag you may be carrying, so that might be extended to knives. That's why I switched from a fixed blade to a folder in my commute gear.

In 'usual' circumstances, shouldn't be an issue - in your backpack while hiking or camping, in your tackle box while fishing. Most places, in your vehicle should also be OK but some examples have surfaced where that's a problem.

It'd be nice if the state would pre-empt the whole field; while the dirk or dagger thing is silly, mostly CA knife laws are not bad.

[ArtP88]

In 'usual' circumstances, shouldn't be an issue - in your backpack while hiking or camping, in your tackle box while fishing. Most places, in your vehicle should also be OK but some examples have surfaced where that's a problem.

Yep, still hoping someone will clarify that. It's why I asked about concealment, I know with guns it extends to any concealment, but the language with knives seems to point to concealment on the body itself. To me, it certainly isn't clear.

I have some opaque storage bins I take hunting/camping with two large "normal" style knives that do not look unusual with the gear that accompanies them. I wonder if the semi-transparent nature is a good thing - causing them to be unconcealed; or bad thing - creating probably cause for a search if I'm pulled oevr.

I'm sick of trying to interpret and comply.

[ke6guj]

Sorry, I thought the whole thing was plastic. My bad.

even if it was all plastic, it is not illegal to possess in the home, or carry exposed. It is just illegal for someone to commercially sell it, commercially import it, etc.

[Seesm]

even if it was all plastic, it is not illegal to possess in the home, or carry exposed. It is just illegal for someone to commercially sell it, commercially import it, etc.

then I want one... where can I get one?

[ke6guj]

pick up one out of state and bring it back with you. The same way you legally get switchblades into CA.

Or, find a vendor that sells them with a metal ring installed, so that they are considered detectable.