AR Pistols, What is legal?

[jink122]

Ive been looking to buy an AR pistol but i've run into quite a few legal laws that I am not sure about and before I make any dumb mistakes, I would like to become an educated gun owner.

From what I know:

1 AR pistol are legal in California as long as they adhere to the AW laws.
2 You cannot purchase a AR pistol lower in the state of California from an FFL.
3 You may purchase a AR pistol lower in the state of CA in a PPT.
4 You may NOT build an AR pistol from a normal AR lower. Must say PISTOL.
5. You may not own a pistol upper if you do not own an AR pistol.

My questions:
1. What is NFS rules? I keep seeing something like all NFS rules apply.
2. What is this about sleds? If they ship they have to put a sled in, what does it do and if it restricts the pistol to single shot, can i remove it legally after i get it back?
3. Any other information anyone would like to give me, I would love to know.

Thank you all in advance.

[otalps]

It doesn't have to say PISTOL, it just has to be drosed as one.

I think owning the upper without a pistol lower only applies if you have rifle lowers in you possession but I could be wrong.

The sled is used to make the pistol single shot to get past the Roster. You can convert your pistol to semi after it is yours.

There are already a few threads on AR pistols that have some good information on them. Well worth finding.

[rabagley]

My answers in-line.

Ive been looking to buy an AR pistol but i've run into quite a few legal laws that I am not sure about and before I make any dumb mistakes, I would like to become an educated gun owner.

From what I know:

1 AR pistol are legal in California as long as they adhere to the AW laws.True. They must also adhere to the "safe-handgun roster" rules (whenever an AR pistol is sold or assembled, it must do so in a single-shot configuration).
2 You cannot purchase a AR pistol lower in the state of California from an FFL.True. FFL's in CA can only sell/transfer a pistol as an entire firearm.
3 You may purchase a AR pistol lower in the state of CA in a PPT.
4 You may NOT build an AR pistol from a normal AR lower. Must say PISTOL. Not true. The lower can not ever have been configured or sold as a rifle. There is no need for an explicit "pistol" mark though.
5. You may not own a pistol upper if you do not own an AR pistol.You can't legally possess a short AR barrel <16" and an AR rifle lower unless you also own an AR pistol lower. If you do, you have fallen into constructive possession of a short barreled rifle. If you don't own an AR rifle, the short barrel is fine. If you own an AR pistol lower, the short barrel is fine.

My questions:
1. What is NFS rules? I keep seeing something like all NFS rules apply.NFA rules. Short barreled rifles are NFA (National Firearms Act) items, basically can't have in CA. If you have an AR pistol lower, you are no longer at risk of violating NFA rules when you buy a short AR barrel.
2. What is this about sleds? If they ship they have to put a sled in, what does it do and if it restricts the pistol to single shot, can i remove it legally after i get it back?Yes. The pistol must be in a single-shot configuration when it is transferred or initially assembled, but can then be immediately modified by the owner to hold a multi-shot magazine.
3. Any other information anyone would like to give me, I would love to know.You're doing fine. Keep asking questions

Thank you all in advance.

[jink122]

Thank you for the responses guys.

So I can buy a AR lower from Mega Machines that has not been marked "PISTOL" as long as when i dros it, I dross it as a PISTOL?

But I cannot dros it as a pistol unless i am a LEO right?

Assuming that the above is correct, if I get a LEO friend to dros it under his name as a pistol lower, then dros it off of him, is that legal? And i just need to retain paperwork saying that it was drosed as a pistol?

[rabagley]

Thank you for the responses guys.

So I can buy a AR lower from Mega Machines that has not been marked "PISTOL" as long as when i dros it, I dross it as a PISTOL?

But I cannot dros it as a pistol unless i am a LEO right?

Assuming that the above is correct, if I get a LEO friend to dros it under his name as a pistol lower, then dros it off of him, is that legal? And i just need to retain paperwork saying that it was drosed as a pistol?

No, he can't DROS it as a pistol because the DROS form requires the gun to be sold to him in a complete state as well. Basically, you can't get a bare lower as a pistol in CA.*

[EDIT: I don't know the LEO rules for off-roster firearms and bare frames. I withdraw my statement as speculation. Rest of the post stands, maybe someone else can chime in authoritatively re: the FFL rules for sale of a bare AR pistol lower to a LEO.]

Either buy an assembled pistol with a single shot sled and bullet button (you could possibly send a cooperative AR lower maker your pistol upper that they assemble with their lower before sending it to the CA FFL) or complete an 80% lower and make your AR pistol from that.

* It's not completely clear if a plain jane AR lower, listed on the 4473 as a "receiver" and on the DROS as a "long gun" is disqualified for assembly into a pistol. CA DOJ seems to rely on the BATFE definition, and the BATFE only cares if the firearm is sold as a "rifle" (not a CA "long gun") or assembled into a "rifle" before it's disqualified for ever being assembled into a pistol (the BATFE position is well documented, it's the CA DOJ position that isn't so cut and dry).

So if you don't mind brushing right up against the raggedy edge of the letter of the law: Buy a bare AR receiver. Buy your lower parts kit, short barrel AR upper, sled, pistol receiver extension, bullet button, etc. Assemble it as a single shot pistol. Pull the sled, drop in the magazine. Optionally (but a good idea for all pistols in CA), voluntarily register the gun as a pistol with the volreg form. Wait for the acknowledgement paperwork from CA DOJ. Go shooting.

If you volreg'ed the gun and a LEO challenges you with your pistol at the range or happens to find it through some other means, if he then runs a check on the pistol, he'll find it registered as a pistol in your name. This may reduce LEO friction.

[dantodd]

Can I PPT my stripped lower as a pistol? A PPT doesn't have to be on the roster or dimensionally compliant or single shot etc., correct?

[wildhawker]

Dan, don't "mfgr" a non-Rostered handgun via PPT.

[Cokebottle]

Can I PPT my stripped lower as a pistol? A PPT doesn't have to be on the roster or dimensionally compliant or single shot etc., correct?

Yes, provided that it is in a legal condition to be built into a pistol.

If it was entered into the DROS system as a "long gun" at any time, then no.

[wildhawker]

Cokebottle isn't correct but I'm mobile and can't elucidate. To restate: don't push this issue, we're working on some "fixes" but until it's done there is some risk. Spend the extra $50 and buy a factory single-shot, or be prepared to spend $15k.

[Cokebottle]

Cokebottle isn't correct but I'm mobile and can't elucidate. To restate: don't push this issue, we're working on some "fixes" but until it's done there is some risk. Spend the extra $50 and buy a factory single-shot, or be prepared to spend $15k.

Interesting.... awaiting elaboration when you get to a terminal.

[markslyon]

Do barrel attachments need to be pinned or does the bullet button suffice?

[NiteQwill]

Since it is a pistol AR, you do not need to meet requirements for a pinned/welded muzzle.

[nhanson]

So if you don't mind brushing right up against the raggedy edge of the letter of the law: Buy a bare AR receiver. Buy your lower parts kit, short barrel AR upper, sled, pistol receiver extension, bullet button, etc. Assemble it as a single shot pistol. Pull the sled, drop in the magazine. Optionally (but a good idea for all pistols in CA), voluntarily register the gun as a pistol with the volreg form. Wait for the acknowledgement paperwork from CA DOJ. Go shooting.

The issue on this is......when stripped lower is transferred in Ca, it is transferred as a "rifle or long gun" via the state DROS system. This makes it a rifle and you need a NFA tax stamp and a CA approval to make a pistol out of it.......Good Luck!

A stripped "pistol" lower can not be sold since they are not on the handgun roster for CA. That is why a complete "single shot pistol" must be tendered by an FFL so the single shot exception may be applied and then the receiver does not need to be on the roster.

[jink122]

The issue on this is......when stripped lower is transferred in Ca, it is transferred as a "rifle or long gun" via the state DROS system. This makes it a rifle and you need a NFA tax stamp and a CA approval to make a pistol out of it.......Good Luck!

A stripped "pistol" lower can not be sold since they are not on the handgun roster for CA. That is why a complete "single shot pistol" must be tendered by an FFL so the single shot exception may be applied and then the receiver does not need to be on the roster.

If i get one direct from manufat. Say from Mega, and a LEO recieves it and droses it as a PISTOL from the start, this would solve the NFA stamp issue right?

[bwiese]

If i get one direct from manufat. Say from Mega, and a LEO recieves it and droses it as a PISTOL from the start, this would solve the NFA stamp issue right?

Whaaaaat?
Sorry bro, no NFA guns for mortals in CA. Stay away from SBR territory.