home made pistol

[eldonvieira]

What laws govern taking a block of metal and making a frame for a pistol for personal use

[Donk310]

If there are any it would definitely be California's Law.

[Barabas]

Are you a non-prohibited person? If yes, go right ahead! You should keep to a firearm that is commercially available so as to not fall afoul of the zip gun restriction and if you are concerned about LEO contact, ensure you stamp or engrave a name, the city and state it was made in and a unique serial number.

You must be the one doing the work to turn it into a firearm and you can't make it with intent to sell.

IANAL, YMMV, etc....

[JSilvoso]

Zip gun

Depending on how you made it, your firearm may classify as a "zip gun:"

PC 12020(a)(1) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison... manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any... zip gun...

12020(c)(10) As used in this section, a "zip gun" means any weapon or device which meets all of the following criteria:

(A) It was not imported as a firearm by an importer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(B) It was not originally designed to be a firearm by a manufacturer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(C) No tax was paid on the weapon or device nor was an exemption from paying tax on that weapon or device granted under Section 4181 and Subchapters F (commencing with Section 4216) and G (commencing with Section 4221) of Chapter 32 of Title 26 of the United States Code, as amended, and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(D) It is made or altered to expel a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion.

[bwiese]

Thanks Joe for joining the discussion.

1. Yes, zip gun laws would cover "something weird that fires a bullet" - i.e, modified pen, piece
of tubing with a striker, etc.

2. Making a gun/frame of known architecture/design - 1911, Sig, Thompson-style single-shot, etc. -
should be OK, as it crosses thru various Fed exemptions and thus falls out of zip gun flow.

3. You should not make an 'unsafe handgun'. The handgun needs to transition thru a 12133PC-exempt
single-shot pistol status or single action revolver status, observing specified dimensional compliance
parameters for min. barrel length & min. overall length. Once the exempt "not-unsafe" status has been
transitioned thru, the owner is free to modify the gun to any other legal status.

4. Calif DOJ is aware people are building their own handguns and are not causing problems (unless the
gun was in an illegal configuration). Alison Merrilees actually wrote a somewhat helpful memo on the
matter, but the above points should be followed. Oaklander 'educated' DOJ's Brett George on the matter
after a bit of harrassment over SBR concerns on homebuilt AK pistols.

[DisgruntledReaper]

Thanks Joe for joining the discussion.

1. Yes, zip gun laws would cover "something weird that fires a bullet" - i.e, modified pen, piece
of tubing with a striker, etc.

2. Making a gun/frame of known architecture/design - 1911, Sig, Thompson-style single-shot, etc. -
should be OK, as it crosses thru various Fed exemptions and thus falls out of zip gun flow.

3. You should not make an 'unsafe handgun'. The handgun needs to transition thru a 12133PC-exempt
single-shot pistol status or single action revolver status, observing specified dimensional compliance
parameters for min. barrel length & min. overall length. Once the exempt "not-unsafe" status has been
transitioned thru, the owner is free to modify the gun to any other legal status.

4. Calif DOJ is aware people are building their own handguns and are not causing problems (unless the
gun was in an illegal configuration). Alison Merrilees actually wrote a somewhat helpful memo on the
matter, but the above points should be followed. Oaklander 'educated' DOJ's Brett George on the matter
after a bit of harrassment over SBR concerns on homebuilt AK pistols.

i was wondering if there is a link or a picture that is readable regarding the memo? Would it be prudent to print and keep a copy of the memo with any home produced AK or other type pistol that is not otherwise a 'zip gun'?

Also and I apologise for asking this but I cannot find it-

WHAT would be the best method to 'prove' that a home made pistol transitioned through the 'exempt' or 'single shot' phase prior to being converted to a 10 shot? I have heard of taking pics, video,????

Is there a link for the best procedure? Only way I was going to do it was to take a picture of a '0' round sled(if i can make one) ,have it installed in the pistol, take a pic ,write a statement with a date and witness signature and then move on from there...... even knowing the burden would be on the DA to prove it did not pass thru the 'unsafe zone'.

I thank you for your reply or pM on this and I promise I wont raise this issue again since I will have clarification.

[CHS]

As long as the firearm built is a standard Title 1, you won't run afoul of the zip gun laws.

The zip gun law was designed to cover things like the unlawful manufacture of a pen gun (which would be a title 2 AOW).

[CHS]

Depending on how you made it, your firearm may classify as a "zip gun:"

12020(c)(10) As used in this section, a "zip gun" means any weapon or device which meets all of the following criteria:

(A) It was not imported as a firearm by an importer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(B) It was not originally designed to be a firearm by a manufacturer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(C) No tax was paid on the weapon or device nor was an exemption from paying tax on that weapon or device granted under Section 4181 and Subchapters F (commencing with Section 4216) and G (commencing with Section 4221) of Chapter 32 of Title 26 of the United States Code, as amended, and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(D) It is made or altered to expel a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion.

Title 1 firearms for personal use are exempt from any NFA or Excise tax, and therefore no Title 1 firearms manufactured by a civilian at home would qualify as a zip gun.

[CaliforniaCarry]

Title 1 firearms for personal use are exempt from any NFA or Excise tax, and therefore no Title 1 firearms manufactured by a civilian at home would qualify as a zip gun.

Didn't know this.

So if I'm reading this right, anything you build that's Title 1 (whether based on an existing design or not) cannot be considered a zip gun?

[CSACANNONEER]

Whoops, no one has mentioned the fact that you can not build a handgun which can not be imported into Ca. Since any handgun you manufacture will not be on "the list", you will need to manufacture one which is rooster exempt. This is not really a problem. All you need to do is make it conform to either the single shot or the single action exemptions. Once you build it as a single shot or single action revolver, you can change it to any legal configuration that you want to.

[CHS]

So if I'm reading this right, anything you build that's Title 1 (whether based on an existing design or not) cannot be considered a zip gun?

That's correct.

[Anothercoilgun]

Open carry is legal and look at the flak it gets.
Build yes, but make known no I would not less it be electronic.

[ojisan]

Soooo....
I have an idea for a new kind of handgun.
It would look like a gun, not violate the AWB, etc, no issues there.
However, it would be new design that has not been made anywhere else yet.
Would it be a zip gun if a prototype (or two) were made?
It would be obvious that this is not a piece of unsafe junk made from hardware store parts or radio antennas.
I have not even started this project because it is going to be long, hard and expensive.
What would someone have to do to legally make the prototypes?
Federal manufacture permit or ???

[eldonvieira]

What I was thinking was a widebody 1911 to fit some preban mags that I have just to see if I could do it

[ojisan]

^ if starting with an existing gun, and the serial number would not be damaged, altered or covered up, you are free to do whatever you want to the mag well and grip area and the rest of the gun...no full auto, of course.