What will come of this?

[Cato]

The BWO arrest has got me wondering what affect will his case's outcome have for California gunowners. Worse case senario his guns ARE deemed AWs and his Prince 50s or whatever he was using are judged out of compliance. Nothing short of bare recievers or welded magwells will do. Best case, SB23 is overturned, certainly through appeals. I'm not a lawyer and have but a tenious grasp on California's gunlaws. What do you guys see as possible outcomes of his case?

[SemiAutoSam]

A better education for the LEO's and DA's hopefully.

No this will not change a thing if they have a Bullet Button or My new MAG-LOCK a Original design MAG-LOCK , or a Prince50 Mag loc, A Monster Man grip ect they are in compliance with SB23 its the lack of LEO knowledge and lack of DOJ to send a bulletin to the DA's and LEO's that makes having a SB23 Compliant AR or AK, Etc somewhat risky.

[Jicko]

its the lack of LEO knowledge and lack of DOJ to send a bulletin to the DA's and LEO's that makes having a SB23 Compliant AR or AK, Etc somewhat risky.

DOJ *did* put up a "notice", something that look official, but actually don't have ANY legal backings...... http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/AWpolicyrev4.pdf

According to this "notice", bullet-button, YOUR MAG-LOCK or any other mag-lock are illegal..... altho... there are MORE legal backings for any of those mag-lock THAN the above notice!!! (the law actually called "a bullet/round" a tool!!)

[bwiese]

There is zero chance his guns will be found to be AWs.

It just takes time.

[Gringo Bandito]

Is there any basis for a civil rights violation lawsuit by any of these folks that are getting arrested?

Bill - Do you know if any of these folks have been able to keep their rifle and them move forward on a factual finding of innocence to clean their record?

[bwiese]

Is there any basis for a civil rights violation lawsuit by any of these folks that are getting arrested?

Bill - Do you know if any of these folks have been able to keep their rifle and them move forward on a factual finding of innocence to clean their record?

I do not know if folks submitted any factual finding of innocence.

I do know swimmingPoolGuy did get his rifle back from SJPD after filing LEGR papers.

Other folks agreed to a simple surrender of their rifles as part of the dismissal as a no-brainer financial decision: a $575 rifle vs. a few grand more of legal fees to get to the next stopping point in the case. In the OC dismissal about 5+ wks ago the DA even knew that the prospective defendant had another identical rifle.

[SemiAutoSam]

DOJ *did* put up a "notice", something that look official, but actually don't have ANY legal backings...... http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/AWpolicyrev4.pdf

According to this "notice", bullet-button, YOUR MAG-LOCK or any other mag-lock are illegal..... altho... there are MORE legal backings for any of those mag-lock THAN the above notice!!! (the law actually called "a bullet/round" a tool!!)

[Cato]

There is zero chance his guns will be found to be AWs.

It just takes time.

I just hope BWO doesn't take the "surrender rifle" option; I wouldn't blame him if he did. However, it would be ground breaking he put up a good legal fight for 2A rights.

[five.five-six]

I just hope BWO doesn't take the "surrender rifle" option; I wouldn't blame him if he did. However, it would be ground breaking he put up a good legal fight for 2A rights.

if he does I understand, I would not wish this on anybody...well there are a few

BWO is a stand up guy. he is the A II perfect scenario for a test case. He is a leader, smart, from what I understand from his postings, all his stuff is legal. what he has in his favor is that he does not have a family or mortgage riding on him. if he can stick it out, by sacrificing a semester or two, he will help free millions of Californian gun owners.. whatever his choice, I wish him well

[tenpercentfirearms]

Losing one rifle is a lot different than the 8-9 they have and the fact that 5 or 6 of them are at least $1K each. Plus, with some funds coming in from us, I think he might find the time, energy, and money to do fight it. If he doesn't, I respect his decision either way as long as he gets off free.

[G-dude]

Well, he's looking at 12 felonies. It's alot. If it goes to trial and they convict him of just one; say the sap gloves, you know, just to teach him a lesson and give him just probation, he loses his right to have guns for life.

If they offer to drop all the charges in exchange for his guns, a couple of grand in guns that he can replace later may be better than taking the chance of losing your right to have guns forever.

If they won't settle for anything less than pleading to a felony, then I would fight it. Felony conviction = no guns ever again. You can't even be around guns at all. That would suck.

[Jicko]

I just hope BWO doesn't take the "surrender rifle" option; I wouldn't blame him if he did. However, it would be ground breaking he put up a good legal fight for 2A rights.

CATO: you go sit in jail for 2 weeks first..... then we can talk about this "hope he doesn't take this option"..... if I am in his shoe, and if I am given ANY options, I will opt out of jail right the way....

[anotherone]

What I don't get is why are there are almost a zillion machinegun charges for the M1919. There are hundreds of M1919 kits out there and none of them are full auto. Have they just never seen one?

[hoffmang]

BWO's current jail sit may end up being useful for him. Once the firearms charges fall away, he'll have a bargaining chip beyond rifle surrender (time served) to plea down anything left and avoid any consequences beyond the ones he's currently dealing with.

I hope he'll have the stamina to fight all the way. He seems the type. I'll understand if he doesn't, but I'm doing what I can to back his fight.

-Gene

[simonov]

What I don't get is why are there are almost a zillion machinegun charges for the M1919. There are hundreds of M1919 kits out there and none of them are full auto. Have they just never seen one?

No, read the charges, they are assault weapon charges. Unless he had more than ten rounds on a belt, and the DA decides that makes every M1919 in his possession an assault weapon, the charges are almost certainly groundless.

As Bill says, conviction on the assault weapon charges is extremely unlikely.

This will likely all be pleaded down to misdemeanor weapons charges connected to the knife and the gloves. Whether or not he gets his guns back depends on how much of a prick the DA (or police) wants to be.