legal status of a blackpowder AR...

[tankerman]

A black powder muzzle loading (so to speak) revolver gets dirty because it is a revolver. A black powder muzzle loading pistol or rifle only gets dirty around the caplock and inside the barrel. It does not have an open breech, and there would be no gas tube to tunnel black powder into the action. It will get no dirtier than any other black powder muzzle loading pistol or rifle, and certainly nowhere near the revolver.

Except that it is a small caliber so any build up will quickly increase pressure. Build up in the barrel would not be good with a hole that small.

[paradox]

Except that it is a small caliber so any build up will quickly increase pressure. Build up in the barrel would not be good with a hole that small.

Who says it has to be a small caliber?

[Scarecrow Repair]

Except that it is a small caliber so any build up will quickly increase pressure. Build up in the barrel would not be good with a hole that small.

Have you not been paying attention? This would use an existing muzzle loading black powder barrel. I was thinking .54 caliber because I don't already have it, but it could be anything, from .75 caliber down. No one said anything about .223, if that is what you mean by "small hole".

[James R.]

See, the primary design of half of the gun would be to accommodate a modern centerfire rifle upper without modification.

Make a barrel for a 1911 that is muzzle loading and you should be fine as well.

Constructive possession would not be an issue, but an intent to circumvent the law by altering a firearm to bypass laws so that it may be quickly modified to fire a modern centerfire cartridge would be something the ATF would not like.

From all that I understand is that it would be legal.

All it would take is an ATF ruling that even though it's currently a black powder firearm, that it is designed to fire a centerfire cartridge regardless of it's current configuration and would still be considered a firearm in that respect?

Absolutely this is asking for trouble, and the ATF would put their foot down rather quickly, but currently you're right. It should be legal.

Actually along that line of reasoning wasn't one of the makers of inline rifles asked by the BATFE to modify the breech plug design or some such because they felt it would be too easy to convert the rifle to fire centerfire cartridges?

Sorry I don't remember the specifics of the rifle. I think it was a blackpowder gun with bolt action type setup for the firing cap and a plug that unscrews like most black powder guns. But something about it made it too close to another model or too easy to modify to be a normal firearm and the BATFE balked.

Regards,

James R.

[TKM]

Fartknocker

Front
Accessible
Rifling
To
Keep
Names
Off of
California's
Kommittee for
Eventual
Re-education

Say it now, say it loud.....

[xenophobe]

Actually along that line of reasoning wasn't one of the makers of inline rifles asked by the BATFE to modify the breech plug design or some such because they felt it would be too easy to convert the rifle to fire centerfire cartridges?

Sorry, my knowledge of black powder firearms is really limited... I can tell a black powder Colt frame from a SAA, and I can look at antique rifles and tell you if they are genuine or reproduction, and if they've been dicked with... and I can identify a few Civil War era carbines by name... other than that I know nothing. lol

[Tmac]

It's been done.

https://www.tromix.com

[OldWestGambler]

I'm not sure. My felon friend (the felony was bs btw) was able to buy a black powder pistol without any trouble.

I could be wrong, but felons aren't to have any firearms, correct? If that's the case, why would he want firearms with a felony on his record? Risk vs. reward doesn't seem worth it.

[FatKatMatt]

I don't think it will work; I wanted to buy a Thompson Encore with the muzzleloading barrel so I could skirt the 10 day wait, but those were considered firearms since you could convert them to centerfire. The same thing probably applies here.

[paradox]

It's been done.

https://www.tromix.com

That's cool! Too bad Tony didn't post any details, only a pic.

[Scarecrow Repair]

That's cool! Too bad Tony didn't post any details, only a pic.

Hasn't answered email yet either :-(

[Scarecrow Repair]

... some inexperienced blather about conversion cylinders for cap and ball revolvers ...

I went ahead and bought one from MidwayUSA for my 1858 Remington New Model Army .44. Works great and easier than I had thought. The rear lid simply comes off, no screws or even a friction fit; it is held in place by the revolver frame once installed. There is a guide pin. As for shooting, it's a lot cleaner than cap and ball, although it feels vaguely like cheating. It sprayed a lot of fragments, more than cap and ball, for me, but a friend didn't notice that. I bought several different cowboy loads at the same time, "Colt .45 Long" is the keyword I think.

Process is simple enough. Remove the cylinder from the revolver, pull off the top, use a screwdriver or pencil or dowel or probably even the ram rod lever to push out the spent cases (they will not fall out on their own), load new cartridges, put the lid back on, put it back in the revolver, bang bang bang! They warn in big red letters to not dry fire, but I don't see how you can avoid doing it at least once in a while, and I haven't broken mine yet. I don't see why dry fire should hurt it anyway; the pins would just hit air and stop at the same place as if they had hit a cartridge primer. Easier to clean, since with the lid off, you can run the brush all the way through. No need to clean chambers between loads, and the barrel might stay cleaner without the patch grease in each chanber on top of the balls.

Did cost as much as the revolver itself, $228 or so at MidwayUSA. But it would make it possible to have a home defense revolver without any kind of registration, since you can leave cartridges oaded for as long as you want, unlike cap and ball. Best not to need more than 5 shots, or six if you don't mind the hammer resting on a live round.