Anti-California Gun Sellers

[rsandovaljr]

i see this from 2 sides. 1 is california is making it harder for outsiders to deal with us. and thus nobody wants to deal with us. this auction is nothing new. gunbroker has been full of auctions that refuse to deal with california. but not just cali. read more of them and you will see ny nj hi ca and one or two other they wont deal with. this guy just took a personal attack against california specifically. and finally 2 is if every vender did business like this then not even law enforcement would be able to get ammo. anybody ever stop to think what would happen if all the manufacturers stood up and said "no more" to california. california has been stealing money from gun makers for years. ever since that safe gun list was enacted. and more money is spent on tool and die for magazines that otherwise would not be manufactured if not for states like california. does anyone think they want to make 10 rounders just for cali? especially when most 9mm double stacks have been over 16 for years. no they would make only the 16's and sell guns.

i have lived here all my life and when i move in January out of the state. i will ship anything legal back into the state for any cgn member. but thats just me. i can see it from both sides. the people of cali did this to themselves. just because we are not the majority here doesnt change that. i personally dont think things will change until the system collapses. and its close.

The manufactures don't hurt at all they just pass the cost down to the consumer. That is why we pay more in California. If a guy doesn't want to sell to California f=== him . There are plenty of other people hungry and willing to do business here. We have free enterprise and there are lots of companies who want to do business with us and some of them are right hear in California. All those pretty banners at the top of this page are proof of that.

[CHS]

The problem would be if you bid it up and win, the seller can refiuse to shipt to you, give you a negative feedback, and report that you ruined his auction since he had stated the conditions under which you could not bid, and being from CA that excluded you.

I've sent a few of those "No California Sales" GB sellers e-mails about their FUDish refusal to ship here. They don't give a damn.

I would do the same. Bid the thing up, and when he refuses to ship to CA, give HIM negative feedback.

Complain to GB that the sellers terms are not in accordance with the law.

If it happens enough they'll have to either ban CA sales ENTIRELY, or start smacking a-holes who ban CA sales.

[OlderThanDirt]

I would do the same. Bid the thing up, and when he refuses to ship to CA, give HIM negative feedback.

Complain to GB that the sellers terms are not in accordance with the law.

If it happens enough they'll have to either ban CA sales ENTIRELY, or start smacking a-holes who ban CA sales.

I used to think this way, but after talking with an out of state seller, I clearly understand his position. As he put it, CA gun laws are too difficult and uncertain for him to deal with, and he sleeps much better at night not worrying about whether or not he broke a CA law or some local ordinance. In the current firearms-related economic climate, out of state sellers don't need our business.

The problem in CA is ours and its arrogant to think that every small seller on Gunbroker should spend countless hours trying to figure out whether his item is legal in CA and some local jurisdiction. And why should out of state sellers take the word from some limp dick in CA that sends him an e-mail telling him his item is legal? I can't blame these guys for not wanting to risk their small business when they have an ample market without CA.

As for large businesses, my opinion flips 180 degrees.

[CHS]

I used to think this way, but after talking with an out of state seller, I clearly understand his position. As he put it, CA gun laws are too difficult and uncertain for him to deal with, and he sleeps much better at night not worrying about whether or not he broke a CA law or some local ordinance. In the current firearms-related economic climate, out of state sellers don't need our business.

That's a bunch of BS. The laws for shipping in a gun are pretty simple, and people can be educated very quickly and easily. They simply CHOOSE not to be educated. They like to be ignorant. Stupidity and ignorance should not be rewarded.

On top of that, it doesn't matter one single tiny little bit if they break CA law, because CA law isn't enforceable wherever they are AND they are protected by the Lawful Commerce in Arms act.

He could ship a full-blown AW'ed Colt AR-15 into CA, and has absolutely zero legal liability.

[Bugei]

Life is too short

He doesn't want to do business with us, fine. I won't order anything from him. Lots of sellers go through CFLC. It's a pain, but they do it. He's too lazy to go through the process, I guess. Once they've done it once, it isn't very time-consuming. I agree that it's a dumb law.

But what does he think we've been doing? We vote for the right guys...and we get outvoted. We're gerrymandered and we vote to redistrict. We call our Assembly Members. CalGuns initiates and follows through on both legislation and lawsuits to restore our rights where theyAnd so on and so on.

I believe that we're doing everything possible short of a shooting war. So let this guy vent if he wants; he's only shorting himself on sales in a tough economy.

[OlderThanDirt]

That's a bunch of BS. The laws for shipping in a gun are pretty simple, and people can be educated very quickly and easily. They simply CHOOSE not to be educated. They like to be ignorant. Stupidity and ignorance should not be rewarded.

On top of that, it doesn't matter one single tiny little bit if they break CA law, because CA law isn't enforceable wherever they are AND they are protected by the Lawful Commerce in Arms act.

He could ship a full-blown AW'ed Colt AR-15 into CA, and has absolutely zero legal liability.

What's BS?

They don't need our business.
They don't want to be educated on CA laws.
They don't have to associate with us.

BTW, ever hear of civil court?

Don't you think there is a reason that even larger out of state companies won't ship certain items to CA? If it was so simple that there is no personal or corporate risk, why wouldn't Cheaper than Dirt or Sportsman's Guide be flooding CA with their stuff?

Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. The purpose of the act is to prevent firearms manufacturers and dealers from being held liable for crimes committed with their products. However, both manufacturers and dealers can still be held liable for damages resulting from defective products, breach of contract, criminal misconduct, and other actions for which they are directly responsible.

Importing "a full-blown AW'ed Colt AR-15 into CA" would expose a dealer to civil liability. Breaking CA laws would definitely rise to the level of criminal misconduct for out of state dealers. States routinely take civil action against out of state companies that violate state laws. Look at the number of lawsuits filed by Jerry Brown against out of state companies. Sure, an out of state dealer may avoid jail time, but they will be ruined financially.

[bodger]

Midway won't ship any ammo to Los Angeles. It's legal for them to do so since it isn't a FTF sale in a brick and mortar store within the city limits of Los Angeles. But they still won't do it.

And I have complained and talked to people fairly high up in their management and they have told me that they know it is "technically" not illegal, but they won't take a chance.

[SkatinJJ]

I'm sorry for bringing in freakshow10mm here, does he still act as an FFL between a gunbroker type seller and a Cali FFL?

Semper FI!!!

JJ