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  • XDRoX
    Veteran Member
    • Mar 2009
    • 4420

    Carrying a mag in the gun ?

    Two questions:

    1. If I open carry, can I have a mag in the gun as long as it's not loaded?

    2. While transporting a gun in the car I lock it up in a gun case. Can I have an unloaded mag in the gun while it's locked in the case?

    As always, thanks for your time.
    Chris
    <----Rimfire Addict


    Originally posted by Oceanbob
    Get a DILLON...
  • #2
    dansgold
    Member
    • Jul 2009
    • 176

    You are probably legally fine in both cases, but inviting a lot more concern and possible unwanted LEO contact in the OC scenario.

    Absent a CCW (or other permit in some cases), you are supposed to carry unloaded. An officer might not even ask to inspect if he sees an empty magwell, although he is legally allowed to do so.

    An obviously inserted magazine might be construed as probable cause to suspect that you have a loaded weapon. You'd be setting up a rational case for the officer to treat you VERY differently, including drawing down on you, if he perceived anything threatening in your demeanor or actions.

    Why would you WANT to carry an unloaded weapon with an empty magazine inserted?

    Comment

    • #3
      Shotgun Man
      Veteran Member
      • Oct 2007
      • 4053

      Originally posted by dansgold
      You are probably legally fine in both cases, but inviting a lot more concern and possible unwanted LEO contact in the OC scenario.

      Absent a CCW (or other permit in some cases), you are supposed to carry unloaded. An officer might not even ask to inspect if he sees an empty magwell, although he is legally allowed to do so.

      An obviously inserted magazine might be construed as probable cause to suspect that you have a loaded weapon. You'd be setting up a rational case for the officer to treat you VERY differently, including drawing down on you, if he perceived anything threatening in your demeanor or actions.

      Why would you WANT to carry an unloaded weapon with an empty magazine inserted?
      Maybe he doesn't want the gun to look obviously unloaded.

      Comment

      • #4
        Gio
        I need a LIFE!!
        • Nov 2008
        • 10251

        Originally posted by Shotgun Man
        Maybe he doesn't want the gun to look obviously unloaded.
        My thoughts excatly That is the only way I would OUC if I decided to do so.

        -Gio
        ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

        Comment

        • #5
          Cokebottle
          Señor Member
          CGN Contributor - Lifetime
          • Oct 2009
          • 32373

          Originally posted by XDRoX
          2. While transporting a gun in the car I lock it up in a gun case. Can I have an unloaded mag in the gun while it's locked in the case?
          Unloaded is unloaded.
          While a mag inserted during UOC may cause an uncomfortable contact, an "e check" performed on a gun in a locked case is more controllable by the officer from the point the gun is exposed (he may ask only that you unlock the case and allow him to actually open it), however, it would not be a bad idea to lock the slide back so he can see that the chamber is empty.. maybe even with a "chamber empty" flat inserted.
          - Rich

          Originally posted by dantodd
          A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.

          Comment

          • #6
            XDRoX
            Veteran Member
            • Mar 2009
            • 4420

            Thanks guys for keeping me straight. Just want to make sure I don't break any laws.
            Chris
            <----Rimfire Addict


            Originally posted by Oceanbob
            Get a DILLON...

            Comment

            • #7
              gun toting monkeyboy
              Calguns Addict
              • Aug 2008
              • 6820

              Hmmm... When we did the UOC events, I thought we kept an unloaded magazine in the gun so that we couldn't be accused of having a loaded magazine in a position to be put in the gun. Wasn't that in the instructions somewhere?
              Originally posted by aplinker
              It's OK not to post when you have no clue what you're talking about.

              Comment

              • #8
                GrizzlyGuy
                Gun Runner to The Stars
                CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                • May 2009
                • 5468

                Originally posted by gun toting monkeyboy
                Hmmm... When we did the UOC events, I thought we kept an unloaded magazine in the gun so that we couldn't be accused of having a loaded magazine in a position to be put in the gun. Wasn't that in the instructions somewhere?
                Yes, it is in the CaliforniaOpenCarry.org FAQ:

                I've heard concealed magazines are illegal. Is that true?

                While there is no code that supports this, there was an appellate case in 1974, People v. Hale, that ruled this way. It ruled that although the firearm in question was not concealed, the magazine was, and that only partial concealment is still concealment, and that the magazine was an "essential component" of the firearm. The logic is tortured beyond belief, but it currently could be used as a persuasive precedent in court. One way to avoid this pitfall is to carry your magazines in belt holsters, so that they match the 12025(f) language of "carried openly in belt holsters". Another option would be to keep an unloaded magazine in the firearm, thereby "completing" the firearm, and invalidating the asinine "essential component" logic.
                Gun law complexity got you down? Get the FAQs, Jack!

                sigpic

                Comment

                • #9
                  Mayhem
                  Member
                  • Jan 2006
                  • 197

                  Originally posted by XDRoX
                  Two questions:

                  1. If I open carry, can I have a mag in the gun as long as it's not loaded?

                  2. While transporting a gun in the car I lock it up in a gun case. Can I have an unloaded mag in the gun while it's locked in the case?

                  As always, thanks for your time.
                  have an empty mag in a gun does not make it loaded. if cased this is non issue but with UOC however other then the obvious fact it will draw more attention from LEOs. You have an added step if you have to load in an emergency and defend your self.

                  Normal steps.

                  1) draw gun and mag
                  2) slap mag in gun
                  3) rack slide

                  You have gone from condition 4 to 0 or 2 (DAO) in 3 steps

                  with an empty mag already in the pistol

                  1) draw gun and loaded mag
                  2) drop existing mag
                  3) slap loaded mag in gun
                  4) rack slide

                  Now this is all good and all yo have only added one step but to do this is under stress is going to take allot of practice (get some inert rounds or snap caps don't do it with live ammo).

                  Realistically due to the mag and fit of your gun it's probably at best going to go something like this.

                  1) draw gun
                  2) drop existing mag
                  3) draw loaded mag
                  4) slap loaded mag in gun
                  5) rack slide

                  no sense in over complicating things and added extra hassle by local leos.
                  Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit!

                  Smyrna Lodge #532 F.&A.M.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    socal2310
                    Senior Member
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 808

                    Originally posted by Mayhem
                    Now this is all good and all yo have only added one step but to do this is under stress is going to take allot of practice (get some inert rounds or snap caps don't do it with live ammo).

                    Realistically due to the mag and fit of your gun it's probably at best going to go something like this.

                    1) draw gun
                    2) drop existing mag
                    3) draw loaded mag
                    4) slap loaded mag in gun
                    5) rack slide

                    no sense in over complicating things and added extra hassle by local leos.
                    Actually, without a good deal of practice and given the lousy maintenance I have been witness to, it's likely to go as follows:

                    1) Draw gun
                    2) Draw loaded magazine
                    3) Attempt to insert loaded magazine (Oh yeah!)
                    4) Try to drop empty magazine
                    5) Manually pull empty magazine out of weapon
                    6) Insert loaded magazine
                    7) Rack slide

                    Good luck with that. If you need a gun, you need a gun right now! I'm fine with UOC as a political pressure tool judiciously applied under the guidance of better legal minds than mine, but am somewhat skeptical about its practical utility as an alternative to loaded carry of any sort.


                    Ryan
                    Bless, O Lord, this creature beer, which thou hast deigned to produce from the fat of grain: that it may be a salutary remedy to the human race, and grant through the invocation of thy holy name; that, whoever shall drink it, may gain health in body and peace in soul. Through Christ our Lord. Amen

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Cokebottle
                      Señor Member
                      CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 32373

                      Originally posted by socal2310
                      1) Draw gun
                      2) Draw loaded magazine
                      3) Attempt to insert loaded magazine (Oh yeah!)
                      4) Try to drop empty magazine
                      5) Manually pull empty magazine out of weapon
                      6) Pick loaded magazine up from ground
                      7) Insert loaded magazine
                      8) Rack slide
                      Fixed it for you
                      - Rich

                      Originally posted by dantodd
                      A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Dr Rockso
                        Veteran Member
                        • Jan 2008
                        • 3701

                        Originally posted by XDRoX
                        2. While transporting a gun in the car I lock it up in a gun case. Can I have an unloaded mag in the gun while it's locked in the case?
                        In the case of OLLs with magazine locks you probably should transport with a magazine inserted to avoid having to try and explain to LEO "this gun has a fixed magazine as defined by CA law, but the fixed magazine is detached from the gun."

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          xxdabroxx
                          Veteran Member
                          • Apr 2008
                          • 3392

                          Can't we all just agree to hold off on UOC for a little while longer. Save open carrying for places that you can load and fire your pistol. Ask theseus if it is safe to UOC, he is now a prohibited person.
                          sigpic
                          NRA EPL Member
                          Visit my blogBullets in the Wash

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            510shooter510
                            Member
                            • Jun 2009
                            • 378

                            Wait a minute! You mean to tell me that we can carry a loaded magazine on our person while UOC'ing? Or am i reading this wrong? I think what I am reading is: have empty mag in gun, and keep loaded mag in pocket???

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              mej16489
                              Veteran Member
                              • Aug 2008
                              • 2714

                              Originally posted by 510shooter510
                              Wait a minute! You mean to tell me that we can carry a loaded magazine on our person while UOC'ing? Or am i reading this wrong? I think what I am reading is: have empty mag in gun, and keep loaded mag in pocket???
                              A firearm without ammo wouldn't make much sense would it?

                              Comment

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