Carrying a mag in the gun ?

[XDRoX]

Two questions:

1. If I open carry, can I have a mag in the gun as long as it's not loaded?

2. While transporting a gun in the car I lock it up in a gun case. Can I have an unloaded mag in the gun while it's locked in the case?

As always, thanks for your time.

[dansgold]

You are probably legally fine in both cases, but inviting a lot more concern and possible unwanted LEO contact in the OC scenario.

Absent a CCW (or other permit in some cases), you are supposed to carry unloaded. An officer might not even ask to inspect if he sees an empty magwell, although he is legally allowed to do so.

An obviously inserted magazine might be construed as probable cause to suspect that you have a loaded weapon. You'd be setting up a rational case for the officer to treat you VERY differently, including drawing down on you, if he perceived anything threatening in your demeanor or actions.

Why would you WANT to carry an unloaded weapon with an empty magazine inserted?

[Shotgun Man]

You are probably legally fine in both cases, but inviting a lot more concern and possible unwanted LEO contact in the OC scenario.

Absent a CCW (or other permit in some cases), you are supposed to carry unloaded. An officer might not even ask to inspect if he sees an empty magwell, although he is legally allowed to do so.

An obviously inserted magazine might be construed as probable cause to suspect that you have a loaded weapon. You'd be setting up a rational case for the officer to treat you VERY differently, including drawing down on you, if he perceived anything threatening in your demeanor or actions.

Why would you WANT to carry an unloaded weapon with an empty magazine inserted?

Maybe he doesn't want the gun to look obviously unloaded.

[Gio]

Maybe he doesn't want the gun to look obviously unloaded.

My thoughts excatly That is the only way I would OUC if I decided to do so.

-Gio

[Cokebottle]

2. While transporting a gun in the car I lock it up in a gun case. Can I have an unloaded mag in the gun while it's locked in the case?

Unloaded is unloaded.
While a mag inserted during UOC may cause an uncomfortable contact, an "e check" performed on a gun in a locked case is more controllable by the officer from the point the gun is exposed (he may ask only that you unlock the case and allow him to actually open it), however, it would not be a bad idea to lock the slide back so he can see that the chamber is empty.. maybe even with a "chamber empty" flat inserted.

[XDRoX]

Thanks guys for keeping me straight. Just want to make sure I don't break any laws.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Hmmm... When we did the UOC events, I thought we kept an unloaded magazine in the gun so that we couldn't be accused of having a loaded magazine in a position to be put in the gun. Wasn't that in the instructions somewhere?

[GrizzlyGuy]

Hmmm... When we did the UOC events, I thought we kept an unloaded magazine in the gun so that we couldn't be accused of having a loaded magazine in a position to be put in the gun. Wasn't that in the instructions somewhere?

Yes, it is in the CaliforniaOpenCarry.org FAQ:

I've heard concealed magazines are illegal. Is that true?

While there is no code that supports this, there was an appellate case in 1974, People v. Hale, that ruled this way. It ruled that although the firearm in question was not concealed, the magazine was, and that only partial concealment is still concealment, and that the magazine was an "essential component" of the firearm. The logic is tortured beyond belief, but it currently could be used as a persuasive precedent in court. One way to avoid this pitfall is to carry your magazines in belt holsters, so that they match the 12025(f) language of "carried openly in belt holsters". Another option would be to keep an unloaded magazine in the firearm, thereby "completing" the firearm, and invalidating the asinine "essential component" logic.

[Mayhem]

Two questions:

1. If I open carry, can I have a mag in the gun as long as it's not loaded?

2. While transporting a gun in the car I lock it up in a gun case. Can I have an unloaded mag in the gun while it's locked in the case?

As always, thanks for your time.

have an empty mag in a gun does not make it loaded. if cased this is non issue but with UOC however other then the obvious fact it will draw more attention from LEOs. You have an added step if you have to load in an emergency and defend your self.

Normal steps.

1) draw gun and mag
2) slap mag in gun
3) rack slide

You have gone from condition 4 to 0 or 2 (DAO) in 3 steps

with an empty mag already in the pistol

1) draw gun and loaded mag
2) drop existing mag
3) slap loaded mag in gun
4) rack slide

Now this is all good and all yo have only added one step but to do this is under stress is going to take allot of practice (get some inert rounds or snap caps don't do it with live ammo).

Realistically due to the mag and fit of your gun it's probably at best going to go something like this.

1) draw gun
2) drop existing mag
3) draw loaded mag
4) slap loaded mag in gun
5) rack slide

no sense in over complicating things and added extra hassle by local leos.

[socal2310]

Now this is all good and all yo have only added one step but to do this is under stress is going to take allot of practice (get some inert rounds or snap caps don't do it with live ammo).

Realistically due to the mag and fit of your gun it's probably at best going to go something like this.

1) draw gun
2) drop existing mag
3) draw loaded mag
4) slap loaded mag in gun
5) rack slide

no sense in over complicating things and added extra hassle by local leos.

Actually, without a good deal of practice and given the lousy maintenance I have been witness to, it's likely to go as follows:

1) Draw gun
2) Draw loaded magazine
3) Attempt to insert loaded magazine (Oh yeah!)
4) Try to drop empty magazine
5) Manually pull empty magazine out of weapon
6) Insert loaded magazine
7) Rack slide

Good luck with that. If you need a gun, you need a gun right now! I'm fine with UOC as a political pressure tool judiciously applied under the guidance of better legal minds than mine, but am somewhat skeptical about its practical utility as an alternative to loaded carry of any sort.


Ryan

[Cokebottle]

1) Draw gun
2) Draw loaded magazine
3) Attempt to insert loaded magazine (Oh yeah!)
4) Try to drop empty magazine
5) Manually pull empty magazine out of weapon
6) Pick loaded magazine up from ground
7) Insert loaded magazine
8) Rack slide

Fixed it for you

[Dr Rockso]

2. While transporting a gun in the car I lock it up in a gun case. Can I have an unloaded mag in the gun while it's locked in the case?

In the case of OLLs with magazine locks you probably should transport with a magazine inserted to avoid having to try and explain to LEO "this gun has a fixed magazine as defined by CA law, but the fixed magazine is detached from the gun."

[xxdabroxx]

Can't we all just agree to hold off on UOC for a little while longer. Save open carrying for places that you can load and fire your pistol. Ask theseus if it is safe to UOC, he is now a prohibited person.

[510shooter510]

Wait a minute! You mean to tell me that we can carry a loaded magazine on our person while UOC'ing? Or am i reading this wrong? I think what I am reading is: have empty mag in gun, and keep loaded mag in pocket???

[mej16489]

Wait a minute! You mean to tell me that we can carry a loaded magazine on our person while UOC'ing? Or am i reading this wrong? I think what I am reading is: have empty mag in gun, and keep loaded mag in pocket???

A firearm without ammo wouldn't make much sense would it?