2:15am my wife wakes me up and says, "Get your gun"...

[ChuckBooty]

...she was convinced that someone was stealing our brand-new 2010 Honda Civic. She heard the alarm going off and heard some banging and clanging outside.

So we go to the front door and slowly (and quietly) open it. I creep outside and it turns out that it wasn't my car that was being messed with. It turns out a teenager (who looked VERY intoxicated) was fumbling and bumbling around in his own (or his parents?) vehicle and couldn't turn the alarm off.

So here's my question. If I WERE to catch someone stealing my car and I used my handgun to tell the guy to get away AND (God forbid) I had to use the gun for self defense, would that be considered self defense or would it be considered a type of vigilante-ism.

I know lethal force is not allowed to be used to protect your property. But if I have a loaded firearm on my own property and go to investigate something outside and it turns out to be a bad guy who then becomes aggressive, am I (hypothetically) justified?

I gotta tell you...getting woken up by your wife during the witching hour with the words, "...get your gun" is a pretty adrenaline pumping, nerve wracking, and down right scary thing. But I have to admit that a small part of me (I guess its the small remnants of my young, dumb, and full of ..... part of me) took a small amount of joy when making the decision to grab my XD45 service or XD9 Subcompact.

[croc4]

going out to investigate with a gun, while this should be more often to teach these punks(theives) a lesson. It I fear will only get you and not the perp in hot water, very very fast if something goes wrong.


Croc4

[dansgold]

I think under the circumstance you would be better off NOT escalating the situation, being that you are carrying a gun and only property theft is involved.

For me this would look something like going outside (gun in hand) only so far as to peek around and confirm that only property was at risk. I'd definitely not be pointed in or brandishing the gun in anyway as a 'warning'. Having done so, I'd high-tail it back inside, lock the door and call the cops.

Only in a case where there was a 100% clear threat to life/safety of someone would I engage any outside BG with a weapon of any kind.

[E Pluribus Unum]

If you witness a crime, even a misdemeanor, you can possess a loaded gun in public while effecting the arrest. You can use that gun to make the arrest, and the standard escalation of force standards that the police follow applies to you. You cannot simply shoot the guy, but you can use force to detain him. You can use any amount of force, including deadly force if necessary, to overcome any resistance. Basically, if he does anything but drop what he has and runs, you may approach him and attempt to detain him, and if he resists, you can eventually shoot him if it escalates. If he does run, you can chase him down with your loaded gun as well. Much of this is very risky civilly however.

If the crime is a felony, and you have reasonable suspicion that he poses a threat to society you can shoot him no matter what. For example, if a shooter takes an AK to a mall and starts shooting people and he turns to run away, you can shoot him in the back from a distance. Do that to a car thief and you go to the pokey.


I would suggest everyone take a PC832 class at the local JC. There is a lot of good info in it.

[Jonnyboy182]

I wouldn't risk it. trying to arrest someone or waving a gun in his face is just looking for trouble imo. Call 911 and be a good witness

[Nodaedul]

Dont leave us hanging! Which one did you grab?

[E Pluribus Unum]

NO! A gun is to be used for self-defense only in life threatening situations. By going out and bradishing a gun-even if your car is being stolen you open yourself up to a million terrible scenarios. What if he has a gun and sees you and opens up first? Then you've gotten shot-and your house is open, and he has another gun to use. Or what if he runs at you and you shoot him? Were you in fear for your life or did you escalate the situation by your waving a gun?
My car was broken into a few months ago. I didn't hear it but if I had I would have gotten my Taurus out-peeked out the window-called the cops and been a good witness. Now if the guy would have decided then to move from stealing my car to breaking into my house he would have gotten shot. And remember, courts are still working on the "Non fenced yard" gun laws.

Sorry bud.... you are a bit lost.

Brandishing, possession of a loaded weapon in public, and any other prohibition goes out the window when performing a lawful citizen's arrest. This is true even for minor misdemeanors involving property theft. If you witness a crime, you basically have the same arrest powers as a police officer.

[tlillard23]

open the window an yell at the guy stealing your car. Insurance is cheap. cars are cheap. Lawyers are cheap?

[Packy14]

he grabbed a sig, realizing that the XD might not cut it jk, i had an Xd back in the day, before sig became my lover.

[Crazed_SS]

I wouldnt go outside with a loaded gun to "investigate". Just call the cops.

Speaking of Cops, there was an epside in Vista (North SD County) awhile back where a guy goes out and points a loaded shotgun at a guy he thought was breaking into a truck. Cops showed up and arrested the shotgun-wielding dude for carrying a loaded weapon in a public place. Funny thing is the guy was getting into his own truck, so the shotgun dude went to jail for nothing.

[E Pluribus Unum]

I wouldnt go outside with a loaded gun to "investigate". Just call the cops.

Speaking of Cops, there was an epside in Vista (North SD County) awhile back where a guy goes out and points a loaded shotgun at a guy he thought was breaking into a truck. Cops showed up and arrested the shotgun-wielding dude for carrying a loaded weapon in a public place. Funny thing is the guy was getting into his own truck, so the shotgun dude went to join for nothing.

It would also be assault, a violent crime. They could also probably get him for wrongful arrest.

This is why as a citizen you cannot act on half truths and misinformation. Intervene only to protect your person or property, or someone else's person.

[Ron-Solo]

There is NO ONE here that can give you a definitive answer to your question. Anyone who thinks they can, doesn't know what they are talking about.

Each situation is different and evaluated on it's own merits. You can only use deadly force to protect your life or the life of another.

You can NOT use deadly force to protect property.

[Ding126]

I would call 911 and wait...property can be replaced, a life can't. If you went outside to stop the theif,,,he pulls a weapon,,screw diver, pistol ..what ever and you have a good shoot, the police & DA say no charges....I am going to bet you will be going to civil court by the surviving family members and loose everything you worked so hard for..Financial ruins.....unless you have boo-ku bucks.

[ChuckBooty]

Dont leave us hanging! Which one did you grab?

LOL....Chose the 9mm with my home defense ammo (PMC ElDorado Starfire 124 grain HP's) locked and loaded. For no other reason than the '9 is new and I haven't had a chance to fire it yet. Sick, huh?

[E Pluribus Unum]

You can NOT use deadly force to protect property.

You can use deadly force to effect a citizen's arrest when the perpetrator escalates it to that, even for property crimes.

Use a gun to effect the arrest, bad guy charges you with a screw driver, good shoot.
Use a gun to effect the arrest, bad guy does nothing, you approach in an attempt to detain and he fights you, it escalates to the point to warrant deadly force, good shoot.

The fact that it is for property is irrelevant.