Carrying firearm to and from, law limiting

[Librarian]

I don't think you are correct. 12026.1(c) defines locked case for all of 12026.1 (all of 12026 perhaps?) but is not specific to motor vehicles as it clearly refers to 12026.1(b) which is not limited to motor vehicles.

12026.2 destination restrictions apply only to 12026.2 exemptions I believe. Not to exemptions claimed under 12026(b)

12061.1 was created by a different bill than 12026.2. All of 12026.1 is necessarily referring to the same thing, and that is the 'motor vehicle' context.

Similarly the bill creating 12026.2 created all the sub paragraphs together (although the list of places has since grown independently), and thus all of it refers to the non-motor vehicle context.

So, the places part refers to non-motor vehicle, and the locked case and what is locked is repeated in each so applies in each.

Not how -I- would have written it.

Took me years to separate the places part of .2 from the motor vehicle part of .1.

[dantodd]

12061.1 was created by a different bill than 12026.2. All of 12026.1 is necessarily referring to the same thing, and that is the 'motor vehicle' context.

Similarly the bill creating 12026.2 created all the sub paragraphs together (although the list of places has since grown independently), and thus all of it refers to the non-motor vehicle context.

If this is the case what do "section" and "chapter" mean? Technical terms I know but does section refer to all of 12026 or just 12026.1 or 12026.2 etc? Chapter all of the 12000 series?

I ask because 12026(c) states: As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device.

While 12026.2(d) state: As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle.

If 12026.2 doesn't apply to motor vehicle transportation then you CAN use a glove box or utility compartment while transporting via motor vehicle since the legislature chose to exclude that proscription from 12026.1 while showing that they clearly "could" have included it had they intended to by putting it in 12026.2

[swhatb]

specific places doesn't apply unless it's an AW.

the two sections are not related to one another.

if it's locked up, a handgun you can carry anywhere.

This is not legal advice.. this is how I understand the law:

There are two general classifications of firearms.

1) Long Guns

2) Concealable firearms (handguns)


1)Long guns can be transported concealed, on your person, slung over your shoulder, however one chooses provided it is unloaded. This means a rifle/shotgun can be transported as long as no ammo is phyically attached to the gun placed into a position it can be fired. (This means no round in the chamber, and no loaded magazine in the mag well). Everything else is basically legal.

2) Concealable firearms (handguns) are generally legal to carry openly (non-concealed). If carried within 1500 feet of a school, they must be in a locked container. If concealed, they must also be in a locked container. They must also be unloaded.

There are areas of the state where possession of any firearm is prohibited (School grounds, court rooms, us post office, et cetera).

The "specific destination" requirements that you speak of are in the concealed carry of firearms in locked containers but NOT in a vehicle. So if one is walking down the street with a concealed firearm in a locked case he must be en route to a specific destination listed in the code. if one is in a vehicle, no specific destination requirement exists.

[Decoligny]

specific places doesn't apply unless it's an AW.

the two sections are not related to one another.

if it's locked up, a handgun you can carry anywhere.

If specific places doesn't apply unless it's an AW, then why does 12026.2 list specific places?

Specific places for AW is covered in PC 12285 and has nothing to do with 12026.2.

The "specific places" listed in 12026.2 are for transporting a concealable firearm, not an AW. They did not write 12026.2 for no reason. PC 12285 even refers to the AW being transported as required by 12026.1, not 12026.2.

12285. (a) (1) Any person who lawfully possesses an assault weapon, as defined in Section 12276, prior to June 1, 1989, shall register the firearm by January 1, 1991, and any person who lawfully possessed an assault weapon prior to the date it was specified as an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.5 shall register the firearm within 90 days with the Department of Justice pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish. Except as provided in subdivision (a) of Section 12280, any person who lawfully possessed an assault weapon prior to the date it was defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.1, and which was not specified as an assault weapon under Section 12276 or 12276.5, shall register the firearm within one year of the effective date of Section 12276.1, with the department pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish. The registration shall contain a description of the firearm that identifies it uniquely, including all identification marks, the full name, address, date of birth, and thumbprint of the owner, and any other information that the department may deem appropriate. The department may charge a fee for registration of up to twenty dollars ($20) per person but not to exceed the actual processing costs of the department. After the department establishes fees sufficient to reimburse the department for processing costs, fees charged shall increase at a rate not to exceed the legislatively approved annual cost-of-living adjustment for the department's budget or as otherwise increased through the Budget Act. The fees shall be deposited into the Dealers' Record of Sale Special Account.
(2) Except as provided in subdivision (a) of Section 12280, any person who lawfully possesses any .50 BMG rifle prior to January 1, 2005, that is not specified as an assault weapon under Section 12276 or 12276.5 or defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.1, shall register the .50 BMG rifle with the department no later than April 30, 2006, pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish. The registration shall contain a description of the firearm that identifies it uniquely, including all identification marks, the full name, address, date of birth, and thumbprint of the owner, and any other information that the department may deem appropriate. The department may charge a fee for registration of twenty-five dollars ($25) per person to cover the actual processing and public education campaign costs of the department. The fees shall be deposited into the Dealers' Record of Sale Special Account. Data-processing costs associated with modifying the department's data system to accommodate .50 caliber BMG rifles shall not be paid from the Dealers Record of Sale Special Account.
(b) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), no assault weapon possessed pursuant to this section may be sold or transferred on or after January 1, 1990, to anyone within this state other than to a licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, or as provided in Section 12288. Any person who (A) obtains title to an assault weapon registered under this section or that was possessed pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12280 by bequest or intestate succession, or (B) lawfully possessed a firearm subsequently declared to be an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.5, or subsequently defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.1, shall, within 90 days, render the weapon permanently inoperable, sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer, obtain a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter 2, or remove the weapon from this state. A person who lawfully possessed a firearm that was subsequently declared to be an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.5 may alternatively register the firearm within 90 days of the declaration issued pursuant to subdivision (f) of Section 12276.5.
(2) A person moving into this state, otherwise in lawful possession of an assault weapon, shall do one of the following:
(A) Prior to bringing the assault weapon into this state, that person shall first obtain a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter 2.
(B) The person shall cause the assault weapon to be delivered to a licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, in this state in accordance with Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto. If the person obtains a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter 2, the dealer shall redeliver that assault weapon to the person. If the licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, is prohibited from delivering the assault weapon to a person pursuant to this paragraph, the dealer shall possess or dispose of the assault weapon as allowed by this chapter.
(3) Except as provided in paragraph (4), no .50 BMG rifle possessed pursuant to this section may be sold or transferred on or after January 1, 2005, to anyone within this state other than to a licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, or as provided in Section 12288. Any person who obtains title to a .50 BMG rifle registered under this section or that was possessed pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12280 by bequest or intestate succession shall, within 180 days of receipt, render the weapon permanently inoperable, sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer, obtain a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter 2, or remove the weapon from this state.
(4) A person moving into this state, otherwise in lawful possession of a .50 BMG rifle, shall do one of the following:
(A) Prior to bringing the .50 BMG rifle into this state, that person shall first obtain a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter 2.
(B) The person shall cause the .50 BMG rifle to be delivered to a licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290 in this state in accordance with Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto. If the person obtains a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter 2, the dealer shall redeliver that .50 BMG rifle to the person. If the licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290 is prohibited from delivering the .50 caliber BMG rifle to a person pursuant to this paragraph, thedealer shall dispose of the .50 BMG rifle as allowed by this chapter.
(c) A person who has registered an assault weapon or registered a .50 BMG rifle under this section may possess it only under any of the following conditions unless a permit allowing additional uses is first obtained under Section 12286:
(1) At that person's residence, place of business, or other property owned by that person, or on property owned by another with the owner's express permission.
(2) While on the premises of a target range of a public or private club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets.
(3) While on a target range that holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range.
(4) While on the premises of a shooting club which is licensed pursuant to the Fish and Game Code.
(5) While attending any exhibition, display, or educational project which is about firearms and which is sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms.
(6) While on publicly owned land if the possession and use of a firearm described in Section 12276, 12276.1, 12276.5, or 12278, is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land.
(7) While transporting the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle between any of the places mentioned in this subdivision, or to any licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, for servicing or repair pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 12290, if the assault weapon is transported as required by Section 12026.1.....

[Librarian]

If this is the case what do "section" and "chapter" mean? Technical terms I know but does section refer to all of 12026 or just 12026.1 or 12026.2 etc? Chapter all of the 12000 series?

I ask because 12026(c) states: As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device.

While 12026.2(d) state: As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle.

If 12026.2 doesn't apply to motor vehicle transportation then you CAN use a glove box or utility compartment while transporting via motor vehicle since the legislature chose to exclude that proscription from 12026.1 while showing that they clearly "could" have included it had they intended to by putting it in 12026.2

Augh! No!

Now you're trying to collapse 12026.1 and 12026.2 into one lump. (I did that for a long time. Nothing worse than a reformed smoker ...)

Gun stuff in the Penal Code is in
* Part 4 PREVENTION OF CRIMES AND APPREHENSION OF CRIMINALS [11006. - 14315.]

* Title 2 CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS [12000. - 12809.]

12026 is in
* Chapter 1 Firearms [12000. - 12101.]

* Article 2 Unlawful Carrying and Possession of Weapons [12020. - 12040.]

and 12026, 12026.1 and 12026.2 are each separate sections

Or, as Findlaw displays it,

* FindLaw
* Codes and Statutes
* California Code
* Penal Code - PEN
* PRELIMINARY PROVISIONS
* Part 4
* Title 2
* Chapter 1
* Article 2
* Section 12026.1

I believe "(a)" is a sub-section, but I don't have the terms for the finer granularity.

So 12026.1(a)(1) says

(1)The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment.

12026.2(d) says

(d)As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle.

In this place, the reference to 'utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle' really makes no sense, because it would be rather difficult to pick up a motor vehicle and use it for foot-transport, locked-container carry.

But BOTH places say 'utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle' doesn't qualify for 'locked container'.

[dantodd]

Augh! No!

That is why I asked what a legal "section" is.

But BOTH places say 'utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle' doesn't qualify for 'locked container'.

Can you shoot me a link for that? The only version I have seen is on the AG's website and "utility or glove compartment" exclusion doesn't show up in 12026.1(c) on their version. HERE

And what is the purpose for excluding those compartments in 12026.2 if the section doesn't apply to motor vehicles.

(BTW: I do realize my mistake in believing the "destinations" limitations do not apply to LUCC, it was a mere misreading.)

[Decoligny]

That is why I asked what a legal "section" is.



Can you shoot me a link for that? The only version I have seen is on the AG's website and "utility or glove compartment" exclusion doesn't show up in 12026.1(c) on their version. HERE

And what is the purpose for excluding those compartments in 12026.2 if the section doesn't apply to motor vehicles.

(BTW: I do realize my mistake in believing the "destinations" limitations do not apply to LUCC, it was a mere misreading.)

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

Check "Penal Code" and then type in 12026 in the search box. It will bring up the entire chapter. Scroll down to the appropriate section.

Regardless of whether or not 12026.2 applies to motor vehicles is really irrelevant.

12025 makes it illegal to conceal.
12026.1 is an EXECPTION CLAUSE which makes it legal to conceal (unloaded/locked up) in a motor vehicle with no restriction to when or where.
12026.2 is an EXEPTION CLAUSE which makes it legal to conceal (unloaded/locked up) when going to/from certain places. Since 12026.1 already makes an exception for motor vehicle concealed transport anywhere, that means that the place restrictions really only apply to all other methods of transport besides a motor vehicle.

[Librarian]

That is why I asked what a legal "section" is.

(and thus my "reformed smoker" comment. Actually being one of those, it's sometimes hard not to snipe at somebody smoking. 99.99% of the time I keep my mouth shut, as I ought. Similar behavior with 12026.1 and .2 from me, since I was so wrong about it for so long - I apologize if that came out unfriendly.)

Can you shoot me a link for that? The only version I have seen is on the AG's website and "utility or glove compartment" exclusion doesn't show up in 12026.1(c) on their version. HERE

And what is the purpose for excluding those compartments in 12026.2 if the section doesn't apply to motor vehicles.

(BTW: I do realize my mistake in believing the "destinations" limitations do not apply to LUCC, it was a mere misreading.)

Darned if I know why they bothered with the extra in 12026.2

Anyway:
12026.1
12026.2

Also, the CA official site, http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

Search on CA's site is merely awful. Search within codes in Findlaw seems to be impossible, but they've recently changed things a lot, so perhaps that capability is coming.

[dantodd]

Darned if I know why they bothered with the extra in 12026.2

Anyway:
12026.1
12026.2

Also, the CA official site, http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

Search on CA's site is merely awful. Search within codes in Findlaw seems to be impossible, but they've recently changed things a lot, so perhaps that capability is coming.

Not to worry. I didn't take as unfriendly at all. I was only confused because you seem to be making the same mistake of combining the two sections that you warned against. The findlaw link and legalinfo.ca.gov link both jive with the AG's website and DO NOT exclude the glove or utility compartments in 12026.1 which is, presumably, the motor vehicle transport section.

The only plain reading of the code that makes glove/utility compartment storage illegal is to lump 12026.2 proscriptions to apply to 12026.1 which you have warned against.

[Librarian]

I see them in both. What am I missing?

(1)The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment.

The term "locked container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle.

[Decoligny]

Librarian, You are missing nothing as far as I can tell.

Each contains the utility compartment of glove box terminology, only phrased slightly different.

I see the whole thing as pretty simple.

1. You can't carry a concealable firearm that is actually concealed per PC 12025.

2. PC 12026.1 says you can carry it concealed in a Motor Vehicle if unloaded and locked up properly.

3. PC 12026.2 says you can carry it concealed if unloaded and locked up properly going to or from the listed places.

Pick whichever exemption clause applies to you and use it.

It only takes ONE exemption clause to make it perfectly legal to conceal a concealable firearm.

You don't have to meet the exemptions in both.

[grammaton76]

There was a fairly long thread on this a while back, where it was determined that one of the exemptions DOES apply to LUCC as long as you happen to sit down in between your times in a motor vehicle. You're in lawful occupancy/possession of your seat. I don't quite remember the logic chain, as it was pretty convoluted, but it was enough to convince me that LUCC is in fact legal. Thus, I practice it regularly. Including in the LEO-swarm-fest known as Galls, where I was summarily ignored. The world did not come to an end, nor did anyone inquire about the soft case with a padlock on it. Even though they sell the exact same style of concealment holster at that store.

[dantodd]

I see them in both. What am I missing?

Not you. Me. I don't know why they would put the glove/utility exclusion in the definitions area of .2 and in the exception description area of .1.


Thanks for pointing it out.