CA needs to resurrect 2018 AB-2067: Armed guards in schools

[automaton1]

In light of recent events, I felt the need to resurrect this (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...1#post21305321) thread (but when I tried to post this to the thread that was 1400+ days old I was denied, ha), to say that this is exactly what is needed. So many of GFZ's have armed guards, but a GFSZ has NO ONE. Children have nobody to defend them. We need another bill like this to be brought forth AND PASSED. Will it scale? Probably not, but it's infinitely better than NOTHING AT ALL, which is what we currently have.

[mooner760HD]

You want to keep kids safe? Allow willing teachers to carry concealed.

[automaton1]

You want to keep kids safe? Allow willing teachers to carry concealed.

That would mean elected officials and voters waking up to the realities of violence, which they seem to be a long way off from. Maybe this bill could be just one waypoint along the way to that realization, in order to one day reach the point of being willing to pass what you suggested.

[psssniper]

Texas has a law in place that would allow the ISD's to have staff CCW. This law has been in place since 2013. From what I can find only 17% of ISD's take advantage of this.

https://www.caller.com/story/news/education/2018/02/22/texas-172-school-districts-allow-teachers-staff-armed/364677002/

[Quiet]

AFAIK...
That 2018 legislation would have made it a requirement to have armed security at a K-12 school and it died over funding for the mandatory armed security.


Existing CA laws allows a K-12 school to voluntarily have armed security, which is funded by the K-12 school.
^Which is why private K-12 schools tend to have armed security and public K-12 schools rely on local LE agencies to provide a school resource officer that acts as armed security.

[TruOil]

AFAIK...
That 2018 legislation would have made it a requirement to have armed security at a K-12 school and it died over funding for the mandatory armed security.


Existing CA laws allows a K-12 school to voluntarily have armed security, which is funded by the K-12 school.
^Which is why private K-12 schools tend to have armed security and public K-12 schools rely on local LE agencies to provide a school resource officer that acts as armed security.

So how could the State justify NOT doing it with a $98 Billion budget surplus?

[Nvberinger]

Once the same officers start body slamming the skinny thugs who are creating problems for everyone, the armed guards will be removed from schools.

[dC0m]

I was listening to the Mike Force (by former spec. forces Mike Glover) podcast and he raises a good point; why do we have armed guards at every important government facility protecting our most important assets, but when anyone proposes armed guards at schools (which is our country's greatest asset for our future), everyone gets up and arms against it?

I believe teachers should be allowed to CCW/possess a firearm in the school place ONLY with proper firearms training. An SRO in every educational institution would be preferred, but with the current LEO recruiting difficulties this state is seeing, it's not a likely scenario.

I can already imagine the left arguing that metropolitan areas should have a sufficient police force to respond in a timely manner. In an active shooter situation, it's seconds, not minutes. If the same police force can barely respond to gunshots quickly in a regular neighborhood, can you imagine their response time to a school? No offense intended to LEO folks; I have the utmost respect for those sacrificing their lives daily.

[Supersapper]

AFAIK...
That 2018 legislation would have made it a requirement to have armed security at a K-12 school and it died over funding for the mandatory armed security.


Existing CA laws allows a K-12 school to voluntarily have armed security, which is funded by the K-12 school.
^Which is why private K-12 schools tend to have armed security and public K-12 schools rely on local LE agencies to provide a school resource officer that acts as armed security.

Actually, this is only half right. It USED to be that a principal could authorize a CCW holder to carry with permission. The reason public schools have a "resource officer" now is that only the cops can have guns on campus. Private schools have more autonomy, as they are specifically that: Private, on private property.

[Supersapper]

I was listening to the Mike Force (by former spec. forces Mike Glover) podcast and he raises a good point; why do we have armed guards at every important government facility protecting our most important assets, but when anyone proposes armed guards at schools (which is our country's greatest asset for our future), everyone gets up and arms against it?

I believe teachers should be allowed to CCW/possess a firearm in the school place ONLY with proper firearms training. An SRO in every educational institution would be preferred, but with the current LEO recruiting difficulties this state is seeing, it's not a likely scenario.

I can already imagine the left arguing that metropolitan areas should have a sufficient police force to respond in a timely manner. In an active shooter situation, it's seconds, not minutes. If the same police force can barely respond to gunshots quickly in a regular neighborhood, can you imagine their response time to a school? No offense intended to LEO folks; I have the utmost respect for those sacrificing their lives daily.

As we have seen, LEOs may not be the best either. Seems they hesitate, too. I agree, an SRO at each school would be great, but like you said...that's an officer off the street.

I agree that a teacher, if properly trained, should be authorized to carry. The Army used to have a program called the "Gaurdian Angel" program, which was kind of born out of the green on blue incidents they had in Afghanistan. Theirs was a single focus: kill any green guy ("neutral" contractor working with us) that threatened the blue guys (Coalition Servicemembers). They looked like a Soldier, served as a soldier and was a part of the team, but when there was an interpreter or several local nationals working with the Soldiers, his job was to insure that they did not get lethal while our guys were doing their business.

Same concept here, but it can't be a teacher. The teacher, in a scenario with a shooter, can't leave their class. They can't up and leave to engage the shooter and leave their students alone, UNLESS in such a case, an adult non teacher was designated to go to their class and cover. Problem is, that this is impractical, because that would be an unarmed civilian moving hither and yon to get to a class to cover for the Gaurdian. Not workable or advisable in a kinetic environment.

Principal, vice principal, counselor, janitor, security, etc would have to be it. Someone regularly on campus that everyone knows. Someone mature enough and well trained enough to handle carrying a gun. Sworn to confidentiality. Someone willing to engage and destroy the threat regardless of whether that threat is a 16 year old jerk kid or a 65 year old nutjob and regardless of whther they know them or not.

Finally, someone that school administration can READILY identify to responding LEOs just in case the LEOs get up the gumption to engage the bad guy. They would HAVE to be able to identify the CCWer and distinguish them from the bad guy.

[SharedShots]

What is the plan then, to harden school buses, school bus stops, school cross walks, and on and on?

Thats the answer, create yet another exempted class of people who carry guns at the behest of the government?

We need to fix our breaking down society. Demand enough police because they aren't effective, or we need them everywhere and one day you'll wake up and we'll have a national or federal police force and all because you demanded it for safety and security.

How would hardening schools and having armed teacher and more cops on campus stop:

Many of you are probably too young (or probably not even born yet) to remember:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Chowchilla_kidnapping

That was 1976. I was around then, a few of you reading this might have been as well.

We can't arm ourselves out of the breakdown we're seeing in society but we can if we make enough demands, get someone to come along and create a Federal Police Force so that every school has at least as many cops on campus as there are teachers.

We always manage to answer with "teachers should have guns" but we can't ever manage to ask why and as a society fix that. The answer to everything isn't lets arm this or that group or everyone should carry a gun or all we'll be left with is anarchy. We had better start thinking about more than the quick fix and feel good band-aid. People are afraid to leave their homes, afraid to send their kids to school. That isn't going to be fixed with guns, it needs a lot more than that. If we aren't careful we'll end up in a police state where every government official has a gun and you don't. And please, none of this that what the 2nd/A is for because if things get that bad that isn't going to be any safer or more secure than what there is right now.

We need to identify and fix the root causes. We know what that is. Supporting the family, maintaining rights and liberty, stop indoctrinating kids in school and instead teaching them how and not what to think, valuing life and so on.

ANd BTW for those who think arming teachers is such a great idea. You've seen or heard about what some teachers are teaching in school and how some schools have programs you'd never agree to if you knew they were going to do it. Do you really want your kids going to school and maybe not agreeing with what is going on yet the very teacher that is doing those things has a gun in class. Is anyone even thinking past just do it? Oh, you'll screen the teachers. Uh huh, just who do you think are going to be the ones choosing?



.

[Supersapper]

What is the plan then, to harden school buses, school bus stops, school cross walks, and on and on?

Thats the answer, create yet another exempted class of people who carry guns at the behest of the government?

We need to fix our breaking down society. Demand enough police because they aren't effective, or we need them everywhere and one day you'll wake up and we'll have a national or federal police force and all because you demanded it for safety and security.

How would hardening schools and having armed teacher and more cops on campus stop:

Many of you are probably too young (or probably not even born yet) to remember:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Chowchilla_kidnapping

That was 1976. I was around then, a few of you reading this might have been as well.

We can't arm ourselves out of the breakdown we're seeing in society but we can if we make enough demands, get someone to come along and create a Federal Police Force so that every school has at least as many cops on campus as there are teachers.

We always manage to answer with "teachers should have guns" but we can't ever manage to ask why and as a society fix that. The answer to everything isn't lets arm this or that group or everyone should carry a gun or all we'll be left with is anarchy. We had better start thinking about more than the quick fix and feel good band-aid. People are afraid to leave their homes, afraid to send their kids to school. That isn't going to be fixed with guns, it needs a lot more than that. If we aren't careful we'll end up in a police state where every government official has a gun and you don't. And please, none of this that what the 2nd/A is for because if things get that bad that isn't going to be any safer or more secure than what there is right now.

We need to identify and fix the root causes. We know what that is. Supporting the family, maintaining rights and liberty, stop indoctrinating kids in school and instead teaching them how and not what to think, valuing life and so on.

ANd BTW for those who think arming teachers is such a great idea. You've seen or heard about what some teachers are teaching in school and how some schools have programs you'd never agree to if you knew they were going to do it. Do you really want your kids going to school and maybe not agreeing with what is going on yet the very teacher that is doing those things has a gun in class. Is anyone even thinking past just do it? Oh, you'll screen the teachers. Uh huh, just who do you think are going to be the ones choosing?



.

And just what do you propose? More red flag laws? You just proposed a Federal Police Force...another exempted class of individuals, except that now they have badges. And more and bigger guns that we can't have.

I agree that arming the teachers is a bad idea, just for different, more practical reasons. Your reasoning does not fit in the grand schema of education. Most teachers would not want the smokewagon to begin with, but those who do got into education for generally good reasons and would never use a gun on kids. No matter how a**hole-ish the kids get.

You mention hardening the schools. As an anti-terrorism specialist, I know that there are some things schools can do to make themselves harder targets. Now to your hardest point:

Society will not change until we get back to the "greater good" and "self-sacrifice" principles. Under liberal leadership, this is what we've been left with. The basic issues at the heart of it all is the victim mentality and the "what's in it for me" mentality. Snowflak-ism. All of that.

You're old enough to remember when it was America first, regardless of right or left. Back in the days when little Johnny misbehaved at little Bobby's house and little Bobby's parents could scold them and little Johnny would get a shellacking at home for embarrassing the family because little Bobby's dad called little Johnny's dad.

When little Johnny scraped his knee at little Bobby's house and instead of suing little Bobby's parents into oblivion, they just cleaned it up and went on.

When kids said "yessir" and "yes ma'am" and not "hey dude" to older folks.

THAT is when it will be fixed and not before. Until then...only an idiot brings a knife to a gunfight.

[SharedShots]

And just what do you propose? More red flag laws? You just proposed a Federal Police Force...another exempted class of individuals, except that now they have badges. And more and bigger guns that we can't have.

I agree that arming the teachers is a bad idea, just for different, more practical reasons. Your reasoning does not fit in the grand schema of education. Most teachers would not want the smokewagon to begin with, but those who do got into education for generally good reasons and would never use a gun on kids. No matter how a**hole-ish the kids get.

You mention hardening the schools. As an anti-terrorism specialist, I know that there are some things schools can do to make themselves harder targets. Now to your hardest point:

Society will not change until we get back to the "greater good" and "self-sacrifice" principles. Under liberal leadership, this is what we've been left with. The basic issues at the heart of it all is the victim mentality and the "what's in it for me" mentality. Snowflak-ism. All of that.

You're old enough to remember when it was America first, regardless of right or left. Back in the days when little Johnny misbehaved at little Bobby's house and little Bobby's parents could scold them and little Johnny would get a shellacking at home for embarrassing the family because little Bobby's dad called little Johnny's dad.

When little Johnny scraped his knee at little Bobby's house and instead of suing little Bobby's parents into oblivion, they just cleaned it up and went on.

When kids said "yessir" and "yes ma'am" and not "hey dude" to older folks.

THAT is when it will be fixed and not before. Until then...only an idiot brings a knife to a gunfight.

Obviously, you can't read or perhaps have a comprehension issue.

I didn't propose a Federal Force nor Red Flag Laws. Yeah, we won't be able to fix anything if people can't read.

This is EXACTLY what I said:

"Thats the answer, create yet another exempted class of people who carry guns at the behest of the government?

We need to fix our breaking down society. Its going to take generations to do but if we don't start it's never going to happen. Demand enough police because they aren't effective, or we need them everywhere and one day you'll wake up and we'll have a national or federal police force and all because you demanded it for safety and security."

Why not read that again and try again. Notice the question mark and that thing people call emoji of an ekk? Any idea what that means? Then read the next paragraph. Don't get that one either?

Everyone wants to talk around the problem. Kids aren't taught respect they are taught vengeance and revenge. Say something someone doesn't like and it doesn't stop there, some of them come calling. WTF?

The tragedy happened in Uvalde and like clockwork, another cry for teachers with guns. The door was left unlocked at that school, maybe by a teacher, who knows. It doesn't matter how hardened something is, when people fail to manage the security all the technology, all the procedure and all the guns won't make one bit of difference. Shootouts in classrooms aren't going to end well for the kids in them.

Which teachers are going to get guns and who is going to be the ones saying which ones? Are they the same ones that in some schools fill the kids heads with all the BS? Somehow only the good teachers are going to carry? BTW, will those guns be limited to On Roster guns or do they get the 15-18 round mag pistols and Gen 5 Glocks and Sigs?

It's time to think first and then do instead of what has been going on. Democrats demand to take guns away from everyone, then conservatives say teachers should have guns in schools and in between that nothing get fixed except for a lot of political posturing.

We're not that far off from each other but these short term fixes don't work.

School shooters aren't terrorists. They are evil criminals but not terrorists. They go there just to kill people, they aren't trying to create a change in politics, government or anything else, they just want to kill. Those are murderers, homicidal maniacs, perhaps psychotic among other things. Someone who creates terror isn't automatically a terrorist. You should know that.

If we don't address root causes of problems, in the end, enough people will say enough and then we will see gun control like we never thought would happen.








.

[Supersapper]

Obviously, you can't read or perhaps have a comprehension issue.

I didn't propose a Federal Force nor Red Flag Laws. Yeah, we won't be able to fix anything if people can't read.

This is EXACTLY what I said:

"Thats the answer, create yet another exempted class of people who carry guns at the behest of the government?

We need to fix our breaking down society. Demand enough police because they aren't effective, or we need them everywhere and one day you'll wake up and we'll have a national or federal police force and all because you demanded it for safety and security."

Why not read that again and try again. Notice the question mark and that thing people call emoji of an ekk? Any idea what that means? Then read the next paragraph. Don't get that one either?










.

Don't be like that. You're the one that bolded it and that is not what that stupid emoji means. Perhaps if you wrote with a little more clarity, it would not have been so misleading. Moreover, you would know that typing a message without tone or inflection, is easily misconstrued. But maybe you don't know that. By the way....look at it. "eek" vs "ekk". AND you used the "confused" emoji not the "eek" emoji. Your turn to try again.

If you're going to correct me, at least do it right.

[bohoki]

the democrats dont want police at school since they would arrest the children of their constituacy